In episode 284, Megan chats with Mika Pieper-White and Dan Kinney, from Joy To The Food, about running a business with your partner and how to grow together and grow a business working together.
We cover information about how to achieve schedule freedom, ways to accept criticism and how to critique gently and how playing on one another’s strengths along with comedic relief is a formula for success in working together.
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Bio Mika and her fiance have been running Joy to the Food for nearly a year now! Both work full time jobs and do everything together for Joy to the Food in their off hours. Throughout the process of building this brand, together they have learned a lot about each other and the best way to work with your partner. They share what they have learned such as the best way to express ideas, accept critique (mostly), and push each other. Dan does the numbers and styling and Mika creates the content and handles communication.
- If you desire freedom to enjoy the things you’re passionate about, blogging with a partner can work towards that goal.
- There are a lot of tools out there to help you be successful. Keep it simple and use what works best for you.
- Tools you use as a blogger can also be beneficial in your personal lives, like with list keeping, notes, etc.
- Write out processes for all you do that if a partner joins you, they can access that and not have to put things on hold to find/ask the other person. It’s empowering as well as doesn’t hold up something from getting done.
- Play to each other’s strengths when divvying up tasks.
- Learn to adapt in working with a partner.
- When sharing a new idea or countering the way to handle something that’s been the go-to way of doing things, make suggestions and use the word “too”.
- When partners have spats, always remember to bring the conversation or issue back to why you’re doing it. Why you’re working together. What your goal is or what you’re trying to achieve. This helps guide the conversation.
- Comedic relief helps keep things light. Music, pet antics, a joke are ways to avoid getting upset and not working together.
- Remember if your partner has a different perspective than you on how to handle something, your audience probably also will have people who could understand from another perspective. Let it be a strength and not a point of contention.
Why is process important (article)
Tips and resources for working with your partner
Episode 233 – Work-life Balance When Running a Business Alongside a Partner or Spouse with Lynn and Matt April
Click for full script.
Mika Pieper-White: Hi, this is Mika and Dan from Joy To The Food and you’re listening to the Eat Blog Talk podcast.
Sponsor: Hey awesome food bloggers. Before we dig into this episode, I have a really quick favor to ask you. Go to your favorite podcast player. Go to Eat Blog Talk, scroll down to the bottom where you see the ratings and review section. Leave Eat Blog Talk a five star rating if you love this podcast and leave a great review. This will only benefit this podcast. It adds value. I so very much appreciate your efforts with this. Thank you so much for doing this. Okay. Now onto the episode.
Megan Porta: Hello, food bloggers. Welcome to Eat Blog Talk, the podcast for food bloggers looking for the value and confidence that will move the needle forward in your business. This episode is sponsored by RankIQ. I am your host, Megan Porta and you are listening to episode number 284. Today Mika and Dan are joining me and they are going to talk to us about working with your partner in business. Mika and Dan have been running Joy To The Food for nearly a year now. Both work full-time jobs and do everything together for Joy To The Food in their off hours.
Throughout the process of building this brand, together they have learned a lot about each other and the best way to work with a partner. They share what they have learned such as the best way to express ideas, accept critique and push each other. Dan does the numbers and styling and Mika creates the content and handles communication.
Hey guys, Mika and Dan. Thank you so much for joining me today.
Mika Pieper-White: Hi. Yeah, we’re super stoked to be here.
Dan White: Yeah, hello,
Megan Porta: I’m so glad. I love it when we talk about partners in business and both partners are here. It just makes it more well-rounded. So I’m really glad that you both are here today. We want to know, are you going to do a collective fun fact, individual fun facts? What do you have for us?
Dan White: We’ve decided to do a collective fun fact. So our fun fact is that we have two crazy wild dogs and they’re both named Nala.
Megan Porta: Ooh. That has to get a little confusing or not?
Dan White: It does at times. It’s not as confusing as you might think. They’re total opposites and one is just this energetic lab, while the other is a Husky. If anyone has a Husky, they might know. She’s not very responsive to her name. She does her own thing. She’s very independent. When they’re playing in the yard and we call Nala to come, the lab just bolts toward us, and the Husky is, he doesn’t barely even bat an eye.
Megan Porta: So why is that? Why did Huskies not come when they’re called?
Mika Pieper-White: We’ve been told that they’re just stubborn. More. They don’t have that desire to please like the lab does. So they hear you, but they don’t want to do it.
Dan White: She’s a free spirit.
Megan Porta: Oh my gosh. I love that. That’s so fun. We have a lab. He’s just turned six and he is the best dog ever. I just love our lab. I cannot imagine having any other breed of dog, but I’m sure you will fall in love with every breed.
Mika Pieper-White: Yes, they’re fantastic.
Megan Porta: Oh, they are. Thanks for sharing that guys. Yeah, let’s just start talking about this because I love this topic. I have been saying this for years. My husband’s going to be working with me soon, but for real 2022 is our year, it’s actually going to happen. So we like to learn as much as we can about this topic. So I’m here to learn from you guys today. So would you guys just mind telling us your story? I know you’ve been together for almost four years and you guys seem like you’re pretty adventurous. So how did you come together in this decision to grow a business and grow a brand together?
Mika Pieper-White: So that’s super exciting, Megan, to bring somebody else on. That’s a big step. We’ve been together for four years. We’re in the midst of planning our wedding. But I’m from California and so once a year or more, we drive out because it’s the only way you can take your dogs. Every time we do, we’re reminded of how restless we get. So we’ve quit our jobs twice and traveled for a month after each time. Because we’re a bit of nomads and we’re tumbleweeds, I guess. So when we travel, we’re like, wow, this is just so great. Every time we do, I seek out a bucket list of places I want to eat at. Because I’m a foodie, I mean like anybody in the food space is. So on this trip we were like, man, how can we create this flexible lifestyle in a side hustle because we both work as engineers full time. So it has to be something that’s not full-time at the moment. Dan was like I was like you mean like cooking? I was like, yeah, but I hate websites. I had tried that before. I have no desire to try and do it again. He was like I’ll do that if you do the cooking. So we just agreed on that road trip and 72 hours in the car together, you come up with a lot of ideas and a lot of plans and we just took off running. Really.
Megan Porta: I love that. So from your perspective, Dan is that kind of how you saw it coming together too? You just both felt the need to create this life where you have scheduled freedom. You guys have been on the same page with all of it all along?
Dan White: Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I’ve always had the desire to build something of my own or our own, build a business. So that was really exciting for me. I like numbers and technical stuff. So the website making that is exciting for me, not exciting for Mika, she likes the food part of it. It was just a big combination. We’re both excited with what we’re doing.
Mika Pieper-White: Yeah. We’re both kind of the people that we take on random hobbies all the time and never finish them. So being a blogger takes that and amplifies it because you have to know a little bit about a lot of things. So it was just a really natural transition. Dan already had a camera, he had practiced photography. Yeah, it was a good switch or start.
Megan Porta: Yeah. You guys seem to compliment each other really well. I love that you have characteristics that compliment the others and you can fill those gaps where needed. What are some things you guys have learned? Because like I said, I’m here to learn from you. Please enlighten me. I have no idea how to go about this. So what are some things that you have done, maybe as far as processes or strategies that you’ve put together that have helped you dig into this?
Mika Pieper-White: Yeah, so we’ve tried a lot of things. So we’ve tried the Air Table. We’ve tried Planoly. We’ve tried leaders, all sorts of things for a variety of tasks, but we keep coming back to Google. Right now we transitioned from personal Google to Google workspace. The reason that we like that is we have a massive template within Google or spreadsheet that has all of our recipe posts and the tasks associated with them, where they’re at, things like that. You have the collaboration aspect. So just like any Google product, you can share it with a collaborator and they can hop in whenever, which is really key for our situation, because we do work full-time jobs that are very demanding. Whenever we have a free minute, somebody else needs to be able to jump in and say, oh, okay, this recipe has been drafted, but I still need to run it through SEO and make sure everything’s okay. So I can just jump in and get going right away without having to do much communication with the other. Which is extra helpful if you don’t live in the same house. Obviously we’re lucky in that regard. But yeah, Google docs and we just started using Google keep, which Dan, you want to go over that?
Dan White: Yeah, we love Google Keep. We were looking for a good application to take notes and create lists for and we landed on Google Keep. Because you can collaborate with another person at it. It’s available on your desktop or mobile. We usually use it on mobile. So we use it to make lists. We have a running recipe list. So if I think of that idea for something that I’m want to pursue, then I can add it to our running list in Google Keep. I also really like it for our grocery list. If I use the last egg, I just add the egg to our grocery list and whoever goes to the grocery store next, they see that I’m on the list. It’s just got all these different features about it. You can add photos to your lists. I was at the grocery store a few weeks ago and Mika had put cream of tartar on the grocery list. I was looking in the soup section, I was thinking of cream of mushroom soup. I was super confused and so she could have added a photo to the list.
Mika Pieper-White: We’re starting to test it out using it for photo research. So how we want our photo to look. So I typically use Pinterest and a hidden board to get some inspiration. Dan uses Google. So we could both just screenshot it and pull it right into a Google Keep.
Megan Porta: I learned something today. I didn’t know what Google Keep was. I didn’t know it was a thing when I just looked it up. It looks really handy. So you can do like reminders, like I’m assuming sync to your Google calendar and label and, wow. Okay, cool. I will check that out. So that’s how you stay in communication with each other is through Google. It is so easy, isn’t it? You can. Do anything, I feel like with the Google workspace and the sheets and the docs and everything you can imagine is right inside of there and it’s all free. So why not test that out? What do you guys feel are some benefits of working together? So having a partner keeps you on track, things like that. What are some good things that come from this?
Mika Pieper-White: Yeah. As Dan has alluded to, I am definitely more on the creative side. So I have 1,000,010 ideas and I have a very hard time staying on track. Whereas Dan is much better about saying, okay, we have this idea. These are the steps we have to take. Because with Google docs, we have an overall process or word doc that states the recipe. We need to one, research it. Two, find a name. Three test it, draft it, blah, blah, blah. So Dan is really good at that and he’s very good with numbers and he’s the reason that this is becoming a business because he is very good at looking at the analytics of SEO. I think that’s where the engineering comes out, is he always looks at it. He’s okay, these are trending up. So we need to hop on this. Then I go to Instagram or TikTok, whatever, and I see what is trending there as well? Is something we can utilize or capitalize?
Megan Porta: Do you ever find Mika that you would get off track if it weren’t for him? Stop blogging altogether? Does he keep you going in the whole grand scheme of keeping up your food blog?
Mika Pieper-White: Yes, because he puts it on the website. I think one of your podcasts we were listening to and learned about RankIQ and we jumped into that. Dan has discovered that by using Key Search and RankIQ, we can rank faster, which is especially important for somebody with a lower domain authority like us. Because we’ve only had the website for a year. So we’ve been able to rank way faster by using that combo of things. Basically when Dan started looking at it in November, it was a flip switch. We tripled our traffic, which isn’t saying much, but when you go from looking and you’re like, oh my God, 10 people are on the site. Then you’re like what are you doing here? I don’t know what you’re doing. So yeah, I think he definitely has kept me on track and otherwise it would just be a hobby. It wouldn’t be a business. But Dan really is very much of the mindset of treating it like a business from day one. That’s how we’re going to get there faster.
Megan Porta: So I just looked at your About page. You guys are so cute. I love your picture of jumping in the ocean. That just captures how I feel like what you guys represent. Just the life of adventure and freedom. This is why you’re doing this. I think that is the perfect photo to have there. I love your site and your photos are beautiful and it’s so clean. Not that you asked me for my opinion, but.
Mika Pieper-White: It’s taken a lot of work. One of the ways that we’ve learned to work together is I’m pretty savvy with Canva. So I put together what I wanted the website to look like, and I basically handed it to Dan and said, can you do this?
Dan White: Many YouTube videos later we got there.
Mika Pieper-White: It’s always a work in progress.
Megan Porta: Absolutely. So how do you guys take criticism? Because I can see this being an issue with me and my husband, because I’m so immersed in my business. I’ve been doing this for 11 years and it’s like my baby. When he comes in, I can just see myself being like, no, this is how it is done. So I need you guys to help me with this. How do you deal with all of that?
Mika Pieper-White: That’s a good question. No, I take criticism very hard and get very defensive. So I think Dan has learned to, sometimes he tip toes and then, if he tip toes and I get mad because I’m like, why didn’t you tell me. He’s definitely adapted. He’s very good at adapting. He’s learned to say things like why don’t we try this too? Then once we get, say the shot, then once I see it and I’m like, shoot, this was better. He was right. So then I come to realize that and I’m very aware that I don’t take it well. So I try to calm down. So sometimes if he seems upset, yes, I’m going to stay upset. I just am right now. Just vocalizing this is why I am upset or this is why I’m upset because I don’t know. It really seems to help learn to give criticism and take it and give constructive criticism in a way that is not destructive.
Megan Porta: Awareness. I feel like you’re very aware. So I think that is huge because a lot of people just aren’t aware that they can’t take criticism. So I think that’s big. You guys have big things ahead of you. Lots of growth, I think because of that. Then Dan, I have to give you a high-five, virtual high five for just saying, like, why don’t we try this too? That is brilliant because then nobody’s discounting anything. You just do both things and see what works.
Dan White: Yeah. We’re both very non-confrontational.
Mika Pieper-White: Very midwest of us.
Dan White: I don’t want to get in a spat with her at all. So yeah. Just my whole life I’ve been very choosy in my words, not to make anyone upset.
Megan Porta: I’ll have to come to you when my husband is on board and be like, now what should I say? You can coach me. You can be my word coach.
Sponsor: Hi, food bloggers. I’m taking a pause here on the episode, really quick to tell you about the spring retreat that we are planning through Eat Blog Talk. This retreat is focused on you, food bloggers who want to come together and collaborate and learn from one another and grow in ways that you cannot even imagine.
The retreat is taking place on May 19th through the 22nd, 2022 here in Minneapolis, Minnesota. We will be spending three nights together, two intensive days learning and growing in a beautiful rental property in Minneapolis. There are a few spots left for this retreat. So if you’re interested, go to eatblogtalk.com and you can reach out for all the information there that you need. You can join the wait list and see how it will benefit your business. I hope you decide to join us. It’s going to be really powerful and awesome. Okay. Back to the episode.
Megan Porta: So if you do have, I don’t want to say a spat, but if you have a disagreement about something, how do you deal with that frustration if you’re like, no, this is how it’s done and the other is no, this worked better. How do you sort through that?
Mika Pieper-White: I would say typically we have to bring it back to why we’re doing it. I always tell people this food can sense fear and anger. If you’re in an upset mind state or an angered mind, our photos are not good. It’s just a matter of fact. When we’re on our game and we’re working together really well, they’re fantastic. So we always are like, okay, we’re both upset right now. We are not feeling it like, should we continue with this shoot? Or should we come back to it when we’re in a better head space? Sometimes we don’t come back to it and sometimes we work through it. So I would say. Just remembering why you’re doing this. Then, it’s in our name. We always have some sort of comedic relief, whether it’s the dogs bullying each other or trying to take the strawberries off the table or whatever. That really helps them. We always try to have some sort of laugh.
Megan Porta: Aw. I love that. Dan, what do you say? How would you answer that question?
Dan White: Yeah, like Mika said, the comedic relief is always nice. If we’re starting to get frustrated, I like to just play a fun song.
Mika Pieper-White: Yeah, we play the song, “I don’t want to work, bang on the drums”. We start playing one of our songs. He plays Sum41 for me.
Megan Porta: Oh, I love that. Just a little. What does that call? Not distraction, but there’s a term for that.
Dan White: Redirect?
Megan Porta: Redirect, maybe that’s it. Like redirecting emotion or something. We’ve been trying that in our house lately. Do you know what works for us? Have you guys ever seen the liver king? He’s on Instagram, this huge Instagram account. He’s this guy that eats liver and I’m like, that is what we use for just making light of things. If something’s heavy, anywhere in our family, one of our boys, my husband, pulls out the liver king and starts playing it and immediately we’re laughing. So you need something, like you guys have your songs and pull out music. I think that’s really smart. I was going to ask you, what do you have for me? What would be a first step for us? I don’t know where my husband would fit in. We have a few ideas, but we’re not sure. We know what’s going to happen. We’re both anticipating it. We’re both a little bit nervous because we’re so used to doing our own thing. He’s used to going to an office every day. I’m used to just running my business by myself. So what advice do you have for me?
Dan White: Yeah, I would say play on his strengths. I think that’s what we have done. We’ve found pieces of the process, each of us are best at and really run with that. So finding his strengths.
Mika Pieper-White: As far as logistically bringing somebody on, if we put a new process in place, or decide to change up how the recipes will go on the site or their layout, we always have a document that says exactly what those steps are or how that layout looks. So having a set file structure in place for him to hop in and say, okay, I need to go get an unedited photo. This is where I’m going to go because this is where you’ll go every time. Which I was sharing after 11 years, you have plenty of file structure. But just having that and then having the documentation to find it. So if you were at the store, he wouldn’t have to be like, I’m trying to work on this thing and blah, blah, blah. Which has happened to us so we’ve learned to have a working document that says this is where we go to do this. This is where we go to do this and we need to get XYZ done before this post goes live.
Megan Porta: Yeah, that’s really smart. The documentation piece I hadn’t really thought of. So I’m going to give you an example of something that may or may not happen occasionally. Tell me what you think. I’m trying to get him just sprinkled into the business. So I will give him something like, Hey, do you want to help me with this? He will look at it and his perspective on it is so different from mine that I get really frustrated. I don’t understand. He’ll say no, this is what I’m saying. I’m like, no, like we just don’t see the same on some things. It’s so hard for me. So what is your advice for me there?
Mika Pieper-White: Yeah, so we have a similar issue. With Dan, because he’s good at numbers, the way he sees it is, pursuing cheesy things and things that mean cheese, meat, and potatoes. Whereas being from the west, I’m like, no, I want to stay true to what I love and what I want to do. When we look at the numbers, that’s where I’m able to see oh, now I understand where he’s coming from because he has data to back it up, which is annoying sometimes. But I would say like in that situation utilizing it has a different perspective. Because if he sees it one way, that means that there is a percentage of the world who probably sees it that way. So taking that into account. I don’t know what exactly it might be, but maybe he reads the recipe differently. So we had this the other day where Dan was reading a recipe that I had written. What was it?
Dan White: I didn’t understand something that she had written in one of the steps.
Mika Pieper-White: To chill cookie dough, and I said, there’s no need to chill the cookie dough. Dan was like, Why would you chill it? You don’t chill cookie dough. I was like, no, but sometimes you do chill cookie dough. So those sort of things, we definitely see differently. He was just like, nobody would understand this. I don’t know what this is for. So then I had to show like a recipe that does chill it and just working through it and vocalizing. Why do they see it this way?
Megan Porta: Right. Try not to get defensive. I think that’s where I have a problem because like I said, I’ve been doing this for so long. So why would you come in and recommend something different, but I need to step back and just realize that he obviously has a different perspective and I need to be gentle and not get super wound up about it.
Mika Pieper-White: Yep. Yeah. I would say it’s hard and always evolving.
Megan Porta: Yeah. So you guys work full time, right? In addition to running your blog?
Mika Pieper-White: Yeah. We’re both civil engineers. I work in construction and Dan used to, but now he works in design.
Megan Porta: So how do you manage all of that? Then do you feel like having that full-time job makes you be super efficient and streamlined with your blog?
Mika Pieper-White: Yeah, I would say it definitely forces us to. We’re still not by any means as streamlined as we should be or as efficient. Like in the summer, for example, I work 60 to 70 hours a week and it’s very hard to spend the energy and the time outside of that to work on it if I have to think about what do I have to do? I don’t remember what I did last. It adds an extra step. So by having our processes in place, where Dan’s already updated the doc, the recipes ready to go, all you have to do is make a graphic and make the video, really helps us. So yeah, I would say it definitely helps us streamline it.
Megan Porta: Yeah. What do you think about that, Dan? Do you think it helps you guys?
Dan White: Definitely. Yeah. In order to meet our goals that we want to meet, we have really had to be more efficient with our process. I think we’ve got a good process now to meet the goals we want to meet in terms of content that we want to post and all that. Yeah, we’re a pretty good place.
Mika Pieper-White: We’ve learned to listen to podcasts 24/7 because. That’s where we learn everything.
Megan Porta: Yeah, free content, right? Free value. Why not? It’s a no brainer. I feel like people like you guys are just so amazing, I seriously just respect you guys because you work full-time and you run a blogging business. I think you guys are the best because you have to do it all. You’re also the most efficient. I talk to a lot of bloggers and a lot of the ones in your boat who both work and work. They’re the ones who have all of these great tips and ideas and strategies and processes. They’re maybe not perfect, but they’re more streamlined maybe then people like me. I don’t have to be as efficient as you guys do. So I feel like we have so much to learn from you. Is there anything we’re missing? Do you have any last tips or strategies or anything that someone listening, wanting to dive into working with a partner needs to hear?
Mika Pieper-White: First off, thank you so much. We feel like we’re just lucky because we have two of us. So we don’t have to bring somebody on. But I would say, set a process in place. It might take more time upfront, but think about it and write it out. It’ll save you so much time in the end, and then you can dive into things like batch contenting and planning, X, Y, Z ahead. So just spending the extra upfront time is worth everything, in my opinion.
Megan Porta: What about you, Dan? Do you have a final takeaway or tip for us?
Dan White: Yeah, I’d say know yourself and your insecurities. So when someone makes a suggestion, if you get defensive about it, know yourself and keep it light and have fun. We have a great relationship and we have a lot of fun outside of Joy To The Food.
Mika Pieper-White: I will say, when you do this full-time and you work full time, it’s very hard to go have a dinner date and not talk about work all the time. As long as you’re both very passionate about it we don’t have an issue with it. It is something to think about that is going to be your life and it will be all consuming.
Megan Porta: Yeah. Almost intentionally schedule that time where you’re not allowed to talk about anything work-related. I can see that being an issue too. It’s like when you have kids, then you go on a date and all you do is talk about your kids and you’re like, wait a second. That’s all we do is talk about our kids. So we had to make that role, like no kid talk if we’re on a date. So I can see that kind of bleeding over too. My takeaway from your chat, one of them, is just to find that thing that you laugh about together, that can distract you when things get hard. Because I imagine it’s not always going to be easy. I’m anticipating that. So I need to put a few things in my back pocket that I know will make us laugh together because we’re going to need it.
Dan White: So you’ve got the liver man.
Megan Porta: Yes, we have the liver king. Thank you, liver king. You guys should look him up. It’s really, really bizarre.
Dan White: Yeah, we’ll look him up.
Megan Porta: Yeah, he’s intense. He’s got these abs that almost poke you in the eye. They’re huge and bulging and he never has a shirt on and he’s got this big beard and hair. It’s whoa. I did not anticipate the liver king would play a role in our talk today. But there you go. I was going to ask, because you guys are adventurers. What is your favorite place to visit?
Mika Pieper-White: Oh, man.
Dan White: We spent a month in Southeast Asia a couple of years ago and that was the best trip we’ve ever done, I think.
Mika Pieper-White: Yeah. We have our favorite spot in the US. The Santa Barbara area of California. We lived there for a year and that’s where we’re getting married. It’s our spot. But adventure wise, yeah, Southeast Asia. Go back in a heartbeat.
Megan Porta: Oh, that’s awesome. Has it been hard to travel outside of the country in the past few years?
Mika Pieper-White: Yeah, we haven’t at all. Especially when you have dogs or kids or whatever, it just adds a layer. But we did a month-long trip in the Southwest. So we found ways.
Megan Porta: Oh cool. Yeah, you make it happen when you have that adventurous spirit. You just do it, right? Thank you guys, Mika and Dan, this was so fun and I will be listening to this episode with my husband. So I appreciate you and everything you’ve been willing to share today. Do you guys have a final quote or words of inspiration to share with us?
Dan White: Yes, we do. Our final quote is, “a day without laughter is a day wasted”.
Megan Porta: Is that perfect? Oh my goodness. That was so perfect. I love it.
Dan White: Yeah, we have fun.
Megan Porta: Oh, cool. We will put together a show notes page for you guys. So if anyone wants to go look at those, you can head over to eatblogtalk.com/joytothefood. Why don’t you just tell everyone where they can find you, your website, social media, and anywhere else you want to mention?
Mika Pieper-White: Yeah. So you can find us on joytothefood.com. You can also find us on Pinterest, Instagram and Facebook at Joy To The Food. We actually have a blog post that is about working with your better half that has some links and tips. So you can find that on our website and maybe we can include that in the show notes as well.
Megan Porta: Yeah, definitely.
Mika Pieper-White: Awesome.
Megan Porta: Thank you guys so much for being here. Yeah, it was such a pleasure. Thank you for listening today, food bloggers. I will see you in the next episode.
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