We cover information about the challenges to expect when you start a new food blog, positioning yourself as an expert in your niche and how to successfully build a multifaceted online presence.
Listen on the player in this post or on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or your favorite podcast player. Or scroll down to read a full transcript.
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Lisa Steele is an author, blogger and 5th generation chicken keeper living in Maine. She started her business more than 10 years ago and grew a successful “chicken lifestyle” blog called Fresh Eggs Daily. In 2022, Lisa got a cookbook deal with HarperCollins and that started her pivot to egg recipes and cooking.
Takeaways
- Focus on your goals, not what others are doing: Determine your unique objectives and align your activities accordingly, rather than comparing yourself to other bloggers.
- Streamline your activities ruthlessly: Regularly evaluate your tasks and drop anything that doesn’t directly contribute to your goals, even if it’s popular with others.
- Develop a thick skin for criticism: Expect and be prepared to handle negative feedback, as it often comes with success. Don’t take it personally.
- Leverage your expertise and authority: Position yourself as the go-to expert in your niche, which can open up opportunities like media appearances and partnerships.
- Prioritize engagement over follower count: Publishers are more interested in your ability to connect with and influence your audience than just the size of your following.
- Recognize the long-term benefits of cookbooks: While the initial monetary rewards may not be as immediate as your blog, cookbooks can provide passive income and increased credibility over time.
- Be prepared for the challenges: Understand that both food blogging and cookbook writing require significant time, effort, and resilience, but the rewards can be worth it if aligned with your goals.
Resources Mentioned
The Fresh Eggs Daily Cookbook by Lisa Steele
Transcript
Click for full script.
EBT647 – Lisa Steele
Intro 00:00
Food bloggers. Hi, how are you today? Thank you so much for tuning in to the Eat Blog Talk podcast. This is the place for food bloggers to get information and inspiration to accelerate your blog’s growth, and ultimately help you to achieve your freedom. Whether that’s financial, personal, or professional. I’m Megan Porta. I have been a food blogger for 13 years, so I understand how isolating food blogging can be. I’m on a mission to motivate, inspire, and most importantly, let each and every food blogger, including you, know that you are heard and supported.
Supercut 00:37
You are going to want to download our bonus supercut that gives you all the information you need to grow your Instagram account. Go to eatblogtalk.com/Instagrowth to download today.
Megan Porta 00:53
I absolutely love the no pressure approach. Lisa Steele, from fresh eggs daily, has on her food blog. She is also a lifestyle blogger. She’s a cookbook author, and she’s a new food blogger who’s venturing into this world. She really has a passion to make this new project work. Not having a ton of pressure on the food blogging side for Lisa has allowed her to really dig into the world of cookbooks, and she gives some information about how we should approach a cookbook deal, if this is something that we’re interested in, do we go the traditional route? Do we go the self publishing route, and whether or not to get an agent, etc, and just generally, how to approach starting a new food blog right now without feeling like you have to get all the traffic immediately. This is episode number 647 I hope you love it.
Megan Porta 01:13
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Megan Porta 02:17
Lisa Steele is an author, blogger and fifth generation chicken keeper living in Maine. She started her business more than 10 years ago and grew a successful chicken lifestyle blog called fresh eggs daily in 2022 Lisa got a cookbook deal with Harper Collins, and that started her pivot to egg recipes and cooking.
Megan Porta 03:14
Hello, Lisa, welcome to the podcast. It’s so great to have you here. How’s it going today? Hi. Thanks for having me. Yeah, so good to have you here. You have an amazing story to bring to the table, and honestly, I don’t know that we’ve ever had a story quite like this, somebody going from lifestyle blogging to food blogging, especially in this time when food blogging is a little bit tumultuous. So I’m very eager to hear how this has gone for you. But before we get to that, do you have a fun fact to share with us?
Lisa Steele 03:42
I do. I mean, I think it’s fun for me. So when I was in sixth grade, my dad was a teacher, and he took a year off to get his doctorate and decided that we were going to live in Finland. I’m Finnish, and we had, like, some distant relatives there. So for sixth grade, we lived in Finland, and it was great. I wish I were older, because I would have appreciated it more, like, I kind of didn’t want to leave my friends and, you know, I was in bands and all that. But looking back, it was such a great experience. And it’s, it’s interesting, because it really has formed, like, who I am, like, I felt more in touch with, like, with my ancestry after that, you know. And like really embraced, you know, being Scandinavian and all that. So, so, yeah, so that was we went, you know, kicking and screaming. But all in all, it was a good experience.
Megan Porta 03:43
that’s funny. Yeah, I suppose at that age, you do resist that a little bit, but I wish more parents did stuff like that. Just took their kids out of the norm and let them experience a completely different culture for a while.
Lisa Steele 04:39
I mean, like we were gonna do this, yeah? My mom was a teacher too, so like my brother, she got all our school stuff so we didn’t have to stay back, or anything like they made sure we wouldn’t have to stay back. And we got back. But the summer after, when my dad was done, we drove around Europe for like, a month in a van, which also was, I guess, very 70s or 80s, whenever it was late 70s. And again. I wish I were older, because I remember parts of it, but it’s something that like doing it as an older person or an adult, I think would be amazing. But we went to, like, so many countries, and, yeah, it was and then I got back, and I’m not even sure half of my classmates even realized I was gone. I mean, it was kind of like that thing.
Megan Porta 05:18
It’s like you think that everyone’s gonna notice when you’re gone for a little bit and you get back and you’re like, oh, everything is exactly the same.
Lisa Steele 05:28
Yeah. In fact, I think I posted it on Facebook because you reconnect with like, people from high school on Facebook. And I think I posted something once recently about being in Finland in sixth grade. And I think somebody actually said, Oh, we kind of wondered where you were or something like that, like, I guess the situation, mine does not, yeah, exactly. That’s what you were doing that year. I noticed you weren’t in school.
Megan Porta 05:47
That’s hilarious. Oh, what a great experience. I love that you’re able to say that your parents did that for you. That’s such a gift that parents can do just yeah for their children. So, so cool to know.
Lisa Steele 05:58
Well, our cat did run away, though we had people watching our house and our cat, well, we found him. He was living in the dumpster at the school, actually. So we found him. We brought him home. The people who were taking care of the house were supposed to take care of him, but clearly they didn’t. But yeah, so he came back and everything was good. Happy ending.
Megan Porta 06:13
Good. Poor kitty living in a dumpster.
Lisa Steele 06:17
I know.
Megan Porta 06:18
Oh gosh. Well, that is awesome. Thank you for sharing that. Lisa. I am so excited to hear about your story, because you had a lifestyle blog, correct? So I guess first tell us about your lifestyle blog. So when did you start give us a few details about it.
Lisa Steele 06:34
Yeah, long story short. So after that whole Finland thing, I went to college, went to work on Wall Street, got married, ended up on a farm, and I started raising chickens in 2009 which was the recession. In fact, your chickens were getting really popular. I had chickens as a kid. You know, we kind of lived out in a rural area, so I started my blog and my Facebook page, like, around the same time, and because I had the experience like having them as a kid, even though it’s totally different when you have an adult, I like, I people started asking me questions. And I, like, naturally, kind of, I did a lot of reading, but I kind of knew, you know, and everything grew really fast. And I got a book deal, like, two years later to write a book on chicken keeping, and then, like, every year for the next six years, I just kept writing books on raising chickens. And, you know, that was going great. It was really popular and all that. And then it was just about COVID time, and my publisher wanted me to write another chicken book. And honestly, I was so over it. I had nothing else to say. I mean, I had like, 700 articles on my blog, and, you know, Facebook and Instagram and everything, and I was, I was just over it. And so I had always wanted to write a cookbook. I, you know, I love to cook. I got my girl scout badge and baking and, you know, whatever I cooked with my mom growing up, but it was one of those things where I would look at it. And even back then, you know, five years ago, it wasn’t nearly as like professional and polished and competitive as it is now. So I never really considered it an option to, like, be a food blogger, but I kind of secretly like put recipes on my blog, and I stuck them in, and nobody cared and liked them and made them or whatever. So I decided I wanted to write a cookbook like COVID came, and I think all of us just kind of like, said, This could be the end of the world, like, What do I like? What’s on my bucket list? So my publisher was not interested. He just wanted me to keep reading chicken books because they were selling really well, you know. But he was gracious and let me out of my contract. That’s why I hired an agent. I did a lot of research about writing a cookbook, and basically, if you want to write like a cookbook, you need an agent. All the big publishers require them. So I hired an agent. Actually happens to be Rachel Ray’s agent, who, I don’t know why he agreed to, you know, push a cookbook for me, but I we wrote a proposal and pitched it out, and Harper Collins gave me a book deal. I nearly fell out of my seat because I wasn’t a food blogger. I had at that point probably about, I don’t know, like, 700,000 followers, you know, for chicken keeping, and they, rightfully or wrongfully, so figured, well, you know, these people raise chickens, but they also eat so part of my thought about writing a cookbook was, at that point with, you know, close to a million followers, only like 5% of the population has chickens. So I had this finite group of people that possibly could follow me by my books, you know, read my blog. And at that point, after doing it for like, 10 years, I figured they knew who I was. You know, I’ve been on television. I had my own TV show, so if you’re not already following me, you’re probably not interested in what I have to say. So I realized I had to make that circle bigger, and by moving into the food world, I basically opened it up to everybody in the country, everybody in the world, really, because everybody eats right? And I figured maybe some of those people who found me through the food would say, you know, I’ve always wanted to raise chickens, and that would draw more people to the chicken keeping part, which I still have, still keep up, still is my main like, revenue stream and all that. So that was kind of my thought process. So I had to figure out, like, how to make that all work.
Lisa Steele 09:59
So my cookbook came out in 2022 February, and it was amazing to not have to talk about chickens anymore and be able to talk about recipes and eggs and like, it was just different. You know, I needed something after all these years of talking about the same thing. It was really great. And it did open up a lot more avenues. It’s a lot easier to get booked on a morning show making a recipe to talking about chickens, yeah. So it opened up a lot more, yeah, a lot in a way. So I kind of chickens right and right and so many, you’ve got to get the right producer who says, Yeah, I think people would want to hear about and I, I had, I bet, had been on, like, the Hallmark show, home and family show, and I had done a couple other things, but nothing really, you know, much. So I kind of went from being like a big fish. I mean, I was speaking at Country Living fairs and Mother Earth News fairs and writing for magazines and all this. I went from like a big fish in a very small pond to like a teeny tiny fish in this huge, you know, ocean, you know. So I started, you know, promoting the cookbook. And, you know, it started selling really well, partially because it was Harper Collins. So they have great, you know, publicity and marketing and stuff. And I realized I kind of had to separate out. And I kind of wanted to, like, in the back of my head was, maybe I’ll sell this whole chicken piece at some point, and just kind of move into, like, I have another cookbook deal. If I can write a few more cookbooks, maybe I can become like a legit, you know, food blogger. So I started a new blog this past June, actually, and moved the 100 or so recipes that I had written over the years, you know, cleaned them up, took new photos, whatever, moved them over to that blog. So my original blog was called Fresh Eggs Daily, which in retrospect, was really great, because my cookbook is an egg cookbook called the fresh eggs daily cookbook. So the name worked like I wasn’t so narrow, you know, that it just had to be about chickens, right? But I decided to call the food blog coupe to kitchen, which I thought was cute, and it’s like a play on farm to table, right? In retrospect, I jumped. So I started a Facebook page, I started an Instagram, you know, started the blog, started a newsletter, but within like eight weeks, I realized it was too much like I couldn’t keep both going and trying to grow something brand new on social media. Right now, it’s just it’s too hard, you know, I had like 100,000 followers on Instagram on my original account. I set up my new account, I got like 200 followers, yeah, so I realized that wasn’t gonna work, and maybe I separated it too much. So I did shut down the social I did shut down, still there, but I don’t It’s not active. And at this point I’m trying to figure out, like, I have a link from my chicken blog to my recipes and like, links from my recipe blog to my chickens, you know, to link them, but at this point they’re kind of separate, kind of together. And I’m trying to, like, I can’t completely let go of the chicken stuff, because that is where I get most of my blog views and, you know, all the ad revenue and stuff. But I really want to focus on the food thing, you know. So I’m kind of, like, in that flux right now, but my food blog since June, started in June, and I’m getting like, maybe 50,000 page views a day? No, that’s not right, a month. Oh, month. Yeah. No, that day, yeah, no. Okay, I used to be an accountant too. Okay, so 50,000 a month.
Lisa Steele 13:11
And on my chicken blog, I get like 450,000 half a million, right? So I’m already at like 10% of the traffic of my blog that I’ve had for 15 years now almost. So I can see that the growth is quicker. But most of it, it’s not Google searches. Most of it is me. I started a newsletter list. I have, like, 7000 subscribers already, which, again, is about 10% of my big subscriber list. And I started sending recipes to both lists to try to get views on the food blog and which works, you know. But then I started to separate it out and say, Okay, if you only want the chicken content, here’s a list if you only want the food content, here’s the list if you want both, you know. And it’s a lot of people do want both, honestly, because a lot of my followers do eat, you know. So I can see this food blog thing growing faster than the chicken lifestyle blog did, but it’s me driving it. It’s, I don’t even think I rank on Google, you know, and I’m not, honestly, I’m not really super concerned about that, because with this that large of a following, I can drive traffic to my blog just your social and my newsletter. And I really wanted it more as a place. When my publicist gets me on a morning show and they share a recipe. Well, I didn’t want them sharing the chicken blog, because people watching the show are like, we paid for a recipe, not chicken. So I, I really kind of just wanted as almost like a landing page where they could use the link and be like, here’s her blog, you know. And I can, you know, put the cookbook links and stuff like that.
Megan Porta 14:37
So you most of your traffic. So you’re getting about 50,000 page views a month on your brand new food blog, which is great. So you you think most of that is coming from the newsletter where you’re sharing your recipes and then social media as well.
Lisa Steele 14:53
Absolutely, yeah. Because when I put a new recipe out, which I’m having a blast doing, by the way, because I’m not, I’m not taking it super seriously. I’m. Worried about SEO, or whatever, like, I just want it to look nice and be a good recipe. Would I push it out? I can get like, 4000 views on it within 24 hours. So at this point, that’s really more than a single chicken articles getting just because those have been I mean, I I write maybe one of new a month on the chicken blog, maybe not even maybe one every eight weeks. You know. I don’t want the blog to stagnate, but I don’t really have anything else to say. So sometimes I’m just cleaning up an old article, but that is just kind of that gets good Google ranking and draws a lot of traffic, and people have it bookmarked, and the links are everywhere, and all that, you know. So that’s kind of passive income at this point, and I’m really focusing on the recipe blog, but not stressing about this has to be first page, because it’s more, it’s more, like I said, just for my publicist to send people when they’re talking about a cookbook author, oh, she actually has a blog with recipes on it.
Megan Porta 15:52
You know, yeah, I actually love the way you’re doing this, because you’ve you have an established brand already that’s supporting your new project, it’s taking the pressure off, so you don’t feel like you have to make this work, and it sounds like you’re really enjoying it. So I think there’s a lot of fun it seems like in just creating the recipes.
Lisa Steele 16:13
It is.
Megan Porta 16:14
How many recipes did you have from your lifestyle blog that you transferred over to your new food blog?
Lisa Steele 16:19
I guess about like 125 or so. I had some other really, really old ones that I haven’t like, cleaned up and not republished yet. So I had about 125 I’m up to about 200 at this point, because I have been writing like one a week or two a week. I did take some from my cookbook and put them on there, because my cook cookbook has been out for like almost three years now, you know, so taking some recipes from that, putting them on there, but not, not crazy, stressing about I need to push out a new recipe. You know, it’s funny, because I’m in a lot of blogging groups, and the food bloggers this new algorithm, which basically killed everybody. I love that, I like you said, I don’t have to stress. It doesn’t pay the bills, and it doesn’t need to pay the bills. So I can have fun with it. I can enjoy it, but yeah, food blogging it. It’s rough because there’s so many people on social media and Substack who are just giving recipes away for free. You know, they’re either typing them all in the text or sharing them somehow that, or even when you go to Google, it’ll show you the whole recipe or Pinterest without even clicking on through. So it’s becoming increasingly hard to get people to actually click through to a blog and use a recipe from it. And another reason, I think I got the cookbook deal, because I I think that there probably are, well, every food blogger out there probably wants to write a cookbook right ultimately. And I think that because I kind of slid in from the side, maybe there’s a little bit of, I don’t know what you’d call it, not really jealousy, but kind of like, Hey, I’ve been a food blogger for 10 years, and I don’t have a cookbook, but my publisher recognized rightfully so, I don’t have a lot of recipes out there. It was even my mom when I said I got a cookbook deal. She said, Well, why would anyone buy a cookbook when you can get recipes for free online? And I said, Well, true, but in my case, I don’t really have recipes online, so if somebody wants my recipes, they have to buy the cookbook. And I think that so many food bloggers have 1000s and 1000s of recipes on their blog that someone would say, Well, why would I write the cookbook when I use all these recipes of theirs that I love, but they’re all just free on the blog. So I think that’s like a catch 22 with food bloggers slash cookbook authors?
Megan Porta 18:22
Yeah, yeah. That’s that’s interesting, because I know, I know so many food bloggers too, who create cookbooks, who take recipes from their blog and put them in the book. But I do think people like them packaged together versus having to sort through a blog. So I think there’s value in that. Just here, I’m gonna put this together for you in book format. You don’t have to go search through my blog, you don’t have to look at ads. So, yep, yeah, I can see.
Lisa Steele 18:48
I agree with that. I mean, I’m a huge group. I own so many cookbooks, yes, because I do like having I like to look through them. I just, you know, I’m old school like that. But yeah, it’s tough to walk a fine line between how much do you should give out for free, and you know, how much an interesting so my first book came out in 2012 and that was my best selling book by far. Like, I think, almost 65,000 copies, my cookbook is number two. And this is talking chicken books that have been out for almost 10 years. And my cookbook, like immediately shot up, and I’m sure it’ll over. To take my first book, just because you’ve got this huge, huge audience, you know, potential audience to to buy it, which is kind of exciting.
Megan Porta 19:31
So your cookbooks, what years did those come out? So you said 2000…
Lisa Steele 19:36
February 2022.
Megan Porta 19:39
Okay.
Lisa Steele 19:40
And I’m working on my second one, which is coming out summer of 2026 which seems like forever from now, but it’s a good two years. I mean, half of it is because they’re all printed overseas, so you have to get that book done and ready and then to the printer in the queue. It’s got to be printed. Then shipped back here, which can take, you know, weeks. So you’re talking like six months from the time that book is submitted to the printer, till it gets to the warehouses, you know. So, so two years is pretty normal for it from start, like signing the deal, you know, to publish date.
Megan Porta 20:15
Yeah, exciting. So, for Coup to Kitchen, is it all breakfast? Eggs. What is your main
Lisa Steele 20:23
No, it’s, it is a good number of egg recipes, mainly because that’s what I have a lot of. And that’s kind of what like that. So I did sort of niche down, like, I’m not, like, I wasn’t looking to just be like a food blogger or cookbook author, like, I really wanted to focus on eggs. There? What? There’s not really anybody who is focusing specifically on that. And a lot of the interviews I’ve done have been for like, magazine, you know, or digital interviews, whatever. Like, you know, how should eggs be stored? Like, how do you hard boil an egg? I mean, there’s so much to talk about, just about eggs, not specifically recipes, but eggs. So I’m kind of focusing on, like, like, I tell my publicist, I want to be the person, like, when somebody’s writing an article and we’ll have a question about eggs, I want to be the person that they think of. So that’s kind of like, where they’re trying to position me. So it is a good portion egg recipes, but there’s also recipes that I wouldn’t call an egg recipe, but they have eggs in them, just because there’s eggs in almost every you know. So I’m not vegetarian by any means. I eat bacon. We don’t eat a lot of chicken, but just because eggs are such a great protein, I find myself not eating a ton of meat. And I’m not a great meat cooker Anyway, like I would never write like a steak book or something. I’m not, I’m not great at cooking meat. So it’s not vegetarian, but it does lean heavily towards fruits, vegetables, herbs, eggs, like fresh, seasonal, you know, that kind of stuff.
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Megan Porta 22:57
So egg focused, but also you give information about eggs too, which I like. So you’re, you’re like the egg lady, if anyone wants to know about eggs, they come to you.
Lisa Steele 22:57
Yeah, and that, that’s kind of where I wanted to. So for my second book, I wanted to do another egg cookbook, because I have stacks and stacks. Like, as soon as my mom heard I was writing a cookbook, she started mailing me, like magazine recipes and calling me with ideas and should see something on TV or whatever, so I could write 10 more egg cookbooks and never run out of recipes. But my agent said, like, follow up, sequel cookbooks don’t tend to sell as well. So he wanted it to be more like a farm to table, which I was absolutely against, like maybe 10 years ago. That would have been exciting. Farm to table is not exciting right now, you know? So I really tugged my heels, and it did not want to do that. I lost the battle he pitched. We agreed not to call it farm to table. But then once I got into it, I really had a lot of fun, because I wasn’t confined to just eggs with recipes with eggs in them. So there’s soups, there’s salads, there’s sandwiches, there’s desserts, which most do have eggs. But it was kind of freeing, because, like, if I wanted to make a salad, I didn’t have to figure out how to get an egg into it, you know. So we really focused on fresh, seasonal I live in New England, like I said, we lived in Finland. So it’s, it’s kind of Scandinavian, but not really, but it’s, it’s very New England, like that, kind of like Northern cooking type. I’m definitely not like a Southern cook.
Megan Porta 24:27
Gotcha. Okay, so I’m curious about where you see your blogs going in the future. So you’ve got your established egg Fresh Eggs Daily, your new food blog, which you seem super passionate about, and then you have social media for each, but you’re not focusing on all of that. Where do you see maybe a year down the road? Where do you see this going?
Lisa Steele 24:48
Okay, it’s got to be like a year and a half. So my next book comes out, yeah, so my so in a perfect world, um, this next cookbook would come out. It will sell great, you know, better than the first one. I’ll get another cookbook deal. I think at that point I would feel comfortable enough that I would probably look to sell the original fresh eggs daily, because that was kind of my long term goal. Like, I don’t want to do this forever, and I wanted to build something where I could get it to a point where I could sell it, you know, the blog, the social media, whatever it would have to be for the right price, obviously, but that’s kind of my goal. If I could, if I could know that I had more cookbooks in me, and could, kind of, like replace that income with that and just focus on the cooking. I think that’s where I would like to go.
Megan Porta 25:35
You really would like to be a cookbook focused business with the food blog as a passion project and something that supports the cookbooks.
Lisa Steele 25:45
So I have a line of products, like poultry products, natural grocery products that I launched in 2018 they sell on Amazon, and chewy, we just went into retail this year. We’ve got like 20 more products coming out next year. What I didn’t really make public is I actually sold that line this year, so I no longer own it, but I’m keeping my hands in it as kind of like creative director marketing, so I’m still the face behind it, so they’re paying me to use my brand name, use my trademark, and that’s kind of how I see the blog and the social going, is that I step away, but obviously the value is in my name, my content, whatever. So some kind of deal where they could, like, license my trademark, and I could still maybe, you know, get some royalties from it or something, but it could keep going, and I would kind of be, like the silent partner, but still, you know, like the face of it, yeah.
Megan Porta 26:35
Would you continue to try to get Google traffic, Pinterest traffic, additional traffic once you sell your Fresh Eggs Daily blog?
Lisa Steele 26:44
Yeah, and that’s the sticky part. That would be the sticky part, because I did all I set up a separate Pinterest. But it’s kind of discouraging to have like 12 followers when I’ve got, you know, 56,000 in my original one. So the other thought would be, sell the the original blog. I mean, maybe Facebook, because whatever. But keep my Instagram and Pinterest and just change the name, you know. So keep the accounts with the followers and change the name, and like Coupe To Kitchen, I thought it was so clever. No one else really seems to so I feel like maybe I should have called the food blog, like Fresh Eggs Daily recipes or something. So that’s kind of where I am.
Lisa Steele 27:22
Why do you think people don’t like that?
Lisa Steele 27:23
I just think that fresh eggs daily is so well established that, you know, no one was really embracing it. So, so that’s a piece I have to figure out. Like, maybe I would tell my blog would say you have to change the name, you know, and Facebook, but you have to change the name, but you can have all the following and all the, you know, Google juice that my blog has, because I don’t know, I was really trying to get away from the Fresh Eggs Daily, and I did not want my cookbook to be called the fresh egg daily cookbook. I just didn’t, I didn’t think it was catchy, you know. And they said, but you’ve got this brand that you’ve built that has value. You kind of have to call it that, you know. So when you search Amazon, the products come up. My books come up. The cookbook comes up, you know, which is why you hire professionals to do things, because they, you know, do know best, because this is what they do, you know. So that’s kind of like where I am now, and I’m not making any quick moves, but yeah, so, and obviously something like, you know, if, if a book made the New York Times bestseller list, or if I won a James Beard Award, or something like that. At that point I would be like, bye, bye, chickens. I’m, you know, full on into this cooking world. But for now, like I said, I’m such a small fish that I to try to rank like it would be so frustrating and discouraging. And I just don’t really have it in me to do that. I just want to enjoy what I’m doing.
Megan Porta 28:37
I appreciate that. It is really hard, but it is possible too, so don’t rule it out completely, especially if you are passionate about it, which it sounds like you are, and you are determined to keep going with it. You can rank, I know there was a blogger in my mastermind group this past year who was brand new a year ago, and she had, I think at the end of the year, she had, gosh, like over 150,000 page views a month from like Pinterest alone. So it is so possible to do it, I think see it as a long game, and eventually it’s gonna pay off. You’ve got the passion there. But I would love to get your thoughts on cookbooks, because I know, like you said earlier, a lot of food bloggers do want to create cookbooks. Do you have, I guess, advice, encouragement for people who do want to explore that venture, but maybe don’t have the following that you had on your lifestyle blog? Yeah,
Lisa Steele 29:34
I know a lot of people will self publish. You know, they either try to get an agent or try to get a deal and don’t get one, and so they self publish, and especially those, you know, with large followings, that wasn’t something that I was ever interested in, because for me, it wasn’t about, like, I probably could have made more money, like, short term, you know, it’s like a quick money grab, because you’re making, I mean, I make, like, you know, 87 cents a copy when a cookbook sells. But for me it was more. Or for the authority, for the expertise for, you know, the morning shows to say, oh, HarperCollins published this cookbook like it was. It was to be seen as more legit. You know, I think, especially for someone without a food blog, I think I needed to have, like a real publisher behind me. My original chicken publisher finally did agree to do a cookbook, but it would have been soft cover, like my other chicken books. It would have been I would have taken my own photography, which I’m not. I mean, I’ve gotten better. I look at some of my old, old, old recipes, and they’re so bad, so I have gotten better. But if I was going to write a cookbook and put all the time and the effort of the energy into writing and promoting it. I wanted it to be like the cookbook, like I wanted hardcover. I wanted, like, you know, pictures for a read recipe. I wanted professional photography. I wanted a publicist to promote it, you know, and all that. So for me, the only choice was to hire an agent and go for like, the big five or seven or however many you know, of the big cookbook publishers there are, there are other smaller cookbook publishers who, I mean, unfortunately, they do look for people with large followings, especially on Tiktok and Instagram. You know when they’re going to these people and giving them deals either a flat fee, which I would run and scream. I mean, if anybody offers you a flat fee for writing a cookbook run fast, because that’s not, it’s not a good deal. And there’s mid sized who probably don’t require an agent, so you have to, like, look at their websites and figure out. But I think, and from what I’ve seen, because I get the best seller lists every week from my agent, with how many books have sold and all that, and I subscribe to Publishers Weekly. What they’re finding out is that a large following does not always translate into huge book sales. Like the people with huge followings on social, their pre sales would be big because all the people that follow them want the book, and they buy it, and then after the book comes out, it’s like crickets, because their core following has bought the book. Nobody else in the world knows who they are, you know. So I think that they’ve been burned by giving some of these people with huge followings, these huge advances, and the books are falling flat. So I think that this year we’re going to see a lot less of that, because they just realize that just because someone follows somebody on Tiktok doesn’t mean they’re going to lay out $30 to lay out $30 for a cookbook. Yeah. So I think they’re going to be more deliberate on who they give deals to, and it’s going to be more about engagement and like true followers and also your demographic. I mean, if you’ve got a bunch of 14 year olds following you, you’re probably not going to sell a lot of cookbooks. You know, I think my TV show on PBS is definitely draws cookbook sales. It draws a little bit of social following, but the average person watching PBS is not scrolling Instagram all day. You know, they’re the type that’s going to go to buy a cookbook. So you have to think about who your following is, and who really is going to buy this book, because people might follow you and love everything you post and be all rah, rah, and oh, you should buy a cookbook. And then when it comes right down to it, are they really going to lay out the money for that book? You know, it’s a hard sell.
Megan Porta 33:14
Yeah, it depends on what your goals are. So if your goals are to have a new revenue stream fairly quickly, then go the self publishing route. If you want the authority, then you should maybe go the traditional route. So just thinking through that first to start and like you, it seems like you really want to build a business around cookbooks. A lot of people don’t want to do that. Many food bloggers just want a cookbook as a sideline project, like, look what I created, that sort of thing, something to be proud of.
Megan Porta 33:44
I mean, I’m one of those people I did, and I think that I my story probably aligns with a lot of people’s story. It sounds like it seems like such a good idea, and then, like, my blog is, has always been my main focus. But I wanted the experience of writing a cookbook I loved, you know, the recipes that went into it and all of that. But once it was done, I was exhausted. I wanted to cry for months, and I did not anticipate that. And I think a lot of people go through the same thing, where they’re like, Whoa. That was a huge, I agree, taking I did not know what I was getting myself into. So just to give that perspective too.
Lisa Steele 33:44
So they can say, I’m an author, yeah, and that’s my Yeah. My agent said that’s the most frustrating thing for them, is signing somebody and getting them the deal, and then the cookbook comes out, and that person never mentions it again. They don’t promote it. They don’t sell it. They don’t because they just wanted to be able to put cookbook author on their blog. Let’s face it, Google is looking for experts, and if you have a cookbook, not only do you have an Amazon listing, which does drive social traffic and blog traffic, you know, it’s a great way to advertise yourself. And they said the number of people that just write one cookbook is staggering, staggering. Like, no, no, yeah…
Lisa Steele 34:58
That’s a good. Point, it’s not always just because they just want to write one and say they wrote one. It is so from my perspective, after writing all these chicken books, I found it actually easier, because writing a chicken book that has to be fact checked and researched and sure, like, I found the cookbook, like, once you get into the like, how you write it. Like the title, the head note how many it makes, the order of the ingredients. It always has to say, Alcorn is flower. Like, I found it very like, formulaic. I guess you’d call it. I really enjoyed it. I also had a ton of time to write it, so I wasn’t, like, stressed. Like, I’ve heard people get like, deals where they have to turn in everything in six months, and that’s, you know, like crazy. But I do think people don’t realize how how hard it is. I loved it also, because every step was different, like writing it, and then you have the editing, and then you have the photo shoot, and then you have the format, and then you have choosing the cover and the title, like it moved right along, and it wasn’t all the same thing, and it was so different than writing chicken books. I also think if someone has a successful food blog, you’re not going to see the monetary like, unless you get a huge advance. And the cookbook advances can range from like, $5,000 probably to a quarter of a million dollars. Like, the range is huge, right? I think that that initial monetary like, I have not seen a royalty from my cookbook yet, because I’m still working off my advance, right? So when I get my royalty statement and there’s no check attached, just kind of discouraging, you know, whereas your food blog, you earn money every day. So if you’re earning, say, you know, $400 a day on your food blog, well, writing a cookbook and getting a royalty check for $1,000 after a whole year, you’re kind of like, you know, what is this? But, like you said, it’s a long game. So like, I think, all told, I sold, like, over 200,000 books, and it’s all passive income, right? So it’s not like the constant grind of keeping your blog up. So it, it definitely is a marathon. When you write a book, it’s not, you know that two months before it comes out and a month after, it’s like, you know, years as long as it stays in print.
Megan Porta 35:07
I think once you go through the process, you know whether you’re a blogger wanting to write a cookbook or a book author wanting to write a blog, honestly, write another one. Yeah, yeah. You know exactly where people are at when you talk to them, because you can feel the passion behind the project. And then I was just going to ask you, Lisa, if you had someone talking to you who was like, Okay, I have this established non food blog, and I’m starting a food blog, what would your advice to them be, and any words of encouragement to them?
Lisa Steele 37:34
Yeah, it would be, don’t count on it as your main income. Like, consider it like a side gig, especially, I mean, I just found it really, really hard to, I know people run multiple social medias and all that. I just found it incredibly difficult to run more than one. I don’t even have a personal Instagram, because even that was too much. I just need to focus on the one, you know. So I would say, like, you said, know why you’re doing it, and what your goals are, and everything you do should, like, bring you closer to that goal. Like, it like, so it’s just me. I don’t have, I mean, I have, like, an accountant and an agent and a publicist, whatever, but I don’t have an assistant or anything. So at the end of each year, it’s really important for me to go through what I’m doing and what I’m spending my time on, and anything that either doesn’t earn me money or I love gets ditched, which is part of why I sold the product line, because I did not enjoy it. It was causing me a ton of stress, and I kind of figured out I just needed to get rid of it, you know. So I drop and I really streamline and say, like, what are my goals for the next few and it’s five years, is what I’m doing, bringing me closer to that goal. If it’s not even if everyone says you have to be doing it, I don’t do it because it for me, it doesn’t make sense. So you have to not, like, listen to what other people are doing and really focus on, like, Is this getting me closer to my goals, which is different than your goals from everybody else’s goals?
Megan Porta 38:52
Yeah. And it has to, like, to align with what you really, truly want deep down inside, right? It can’t. You can’t be working on a project that doesn’t align me tuning into that as well. I love your story. I think this is so encouraging that you can switch completely niches. You can go from a lifestyle vlog to a food blog and cookbook writing, and find success in all areas. Is there anything you feel like we should touch on before we start saying goodbye, Lisa?
Lisa Steele 39:19
I guess I guess I should mention one thing that surprised me about the food blogging we shouldn’t have because, like I said, I’ve been part of blogger groups, but it’s the people who you know, you you share a recipe for, like, grilled salmon with dill, and someone says, I’m allergic to fish and I don’t like dill. What could I substitute? And you’re like, this just isn’t the recipe for you. Like, I’ve seen it, and, you know, kind of laughed about it, but now, firsthand having eat, I mean, I had someone on Amazon leave a review for my book and say there were too many egg recipes. And I was like, it’s an egg cookbook. Like, you just eat the level of what these people and, yeah, I’m sure. See it on social media too. You know, it’s like, I’m allergic to peanuts. What else can I use? It’s like, well, it’s peanut butter cookies. So probably not the recipe, like, scroll on, you know. But in general, you have to have a thick skin, no matter what, what niche you’re in. You know, social media is rough and ugly, and it is not for their faint of heart. So, yeah, you just, you can’t take it personally, and you have to just kind of laugh all the way to the bank. And, you know, my mom will say, I don’t know how you you deal with these horrible people. I’m like, Mom, I don’t have to go to work and sit in a cubicle all day. So like, that goes a long way, you know. And I can pour a glass of wine at any time during the day and, you know, just kind of check out and be like,
Megan Porta 40:38
Yeah, it is not worth it. I have learned that too over the years. It is so not worth it to focus on those people, to give them even the minute, minute bit of attention at all. So yeah, move on next, because there are plenty of people who love your content, who love you, and who come for the right reasons, right?
Lisa Steele 40:58
And if you and you can’t, I mean, I just like, either delete block. I mean, it cracks me up when people argue with you on your page because, you know, 14 paragraphs telling you how horrible you are, and all you have to do is hit the delete and block button. You know, like two seconds you’re like, bye, bye. Glad you wasted 20 minutes of your time doing that.
Megan Porta 41:16
Thank you for sharing the story. I love it. It was such a pleasure to talk to sir same Yeah. And do you have a favorite quote or words of inspiration to leave us with?
Lisa Steele 41:26
And, I guess, from what? Yes. So, uh, P. Ellen Smith, who some people like, he’s kind of like the Martha Stewart of the South. You know, he has a garden and a TV show on PBS. Whatever he said to me years ago, I’m inviting me to his farm. And he I was kind of just starting out and kind of just discouraged, and he said to me, he said to me, you truly know you’re a success when you have haters. He said, People don’t hate on people that aren’t successful. And I have carried that with me and it you know, from what we were just talking about, you can’t take it personally, and you have to realize that everybody deals with it. Yeah, you just gotta carry on. And he said, The worst thing is, is for no one to be indifferent like you. Don’t want people to be indifferent about you, and if people love you, they’re going to be people who hate you. You’ve got to take a stance.
Megan Porta 42:10
great perspective. Keep that in mind.
Lisa Steele 42:12
My advice.
Megan Porta 42:12
Yes, we will put together a show notes page for you. Lisa, if you want to go check those out. Head to eatblogtalk.com/ fresheggsdaily. So tell everyone where they can find you. We’ve mentioned your blogs and your cookbook, but why don’t you spell it all out for us?
Lisa Steele 42:19
Yeah, basically at fresh eggs daily till further notice and until Coupe to Kitchen takes off. It’s just at Fresh Eggs Daily. My first book was Fresh Eggs Daily. My cookbooks, Fresh Eggs Daily cookbook, so I just made it easy, Pinterest, Instagram, Facebook, Substack blog every and the blog is enough, I mean, that’s all the links are pretty much there. So that’s where I am.
Megan Porta 42:46
Awesome. Well, I hope you guys go check Lisa out and all of her egg information. It sounds like you were the go to place for eggs. So go check it out. Thank you again, Lisa for being here, and thank you for listening food bloggers. I will see you next time.
Outro 43:02
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