Episode 809: Why Your Recipes Aren’t Showing Up on Google (Even When You’re Doing SEO Right) With Sandie Markle

EBT809 – Sandie Markle

[00:00:00] Megan Porta
Have you ever looked at your analytics and thought, I’m doing everything right, so why aren’t my recipes showing up? I think we can all say yes to that if SEO feels harder than ever. This episode will help you zoom out and see the bigger picture. Today I’m talking with food tech consultant Sandie Markle about how search behavior is changing, why Google isn’t the only discovery engine that matters anymore, and how structured content could create opportunities far beyond traditional SEO. If you’ve been wondering how to future proof your content in an AI driven world, this conversation will give you a completely different way to think about your recipes and your business.

[00:00:46] Intro
Hi food bloggers, I’m Megan Porta and this is Eat Blog Talk. Your space for support, inspiration and strategies to grow your blog and your freedom. Whether that’s personal, professional or financial, you are not alone on this journey.

[00:00:56] Megan Porta
Sandie, it’s so great to have you back. How are you?

[00:01:00] Sandie Markle
I’m doing so good. It’s so good to. I always like talking to you, so I know it’s like just picking up where we left off.

[00:01:06] Megan Porta
Agreed. We have a long history. We’ve known each other for a long time with way back in the day, gosh, it feels like it goes back forever.

[00:01:15] Sandie Markle
Yes.

[00:01:15] Megan Porta
We always have fun conversations and today will be no exception. So thank you for joining us. We are going to talk today about why your recipes aren’t showing up on Google. Even if you feel like you’re doing everything right with SEO, we’re going to just have a conversation around that. But why don’t you give us a little background on who you are and what Blueberri does.

[00:01:35] Sandie Markle
So I identify myself as a food tech consultant. My specialty is content strategy and content engineering. And all that means is that especially for recipe platforms, I make sure that recipes do what they’re supposed to do. Either they’re supposed to help you find them, shop them, put them in the list, cook them with your oven.

[00:01:59] Sandie Markle
And so I’ve been doing this for over a decade and now with Blueberri, I get to do that even more because I love working with different types of food tech clients like cooking apps and grocery tech. But I also love working with creators and providing more education how they can become strategic partners with the platforms that are supposed to showcase them.

[00:02:25] Megan Porta
Yeah, you know a lot about us crazy content, food content creators, don’t you? You’ve, you’ve worked with us for a long time. You know the ins and outs of our businesses and kind of how we work and all of that, which I think is so valuable. And I want to just tease a little bit your book, because you’re writing a book, so just give us a little rundown on that.

[00:02:45] Sandie Markle
I feel like this book has been like a decade in the making. So it’s called Create Once, Share Everywhere. And it’s kind of a tease to this principle of content omnichannel publishing. But it’s really for creators and content professionals who feel like they’re always out, their output is greater than their return.

[00:03:11] Sandie Markle
Like at the minute they stop, everything stops. But what they don’t realize is the things that they, the platforms that they’ve been publishing on has had something really unique, really powerful, and that’s called structure. And so my book, my book’s message is if your content, your content can’t be an asset unless it’s structured.

[00:03:36] Sandie Markle
So in my book, I’m really helping creators understand how they can build content that lasts beyond whatever technology comes, whatever algorithm comes. And I am really excited about it because I’ve been able to provide not just technical knowledge, but a journey through a mindset shift that shows that structure creates possibility. And I feel like possibility is something that creators really need right now.

[00:04:06] Sandie Markle
Yeah. So I’m really excited about it coming out. The whole full draft, first draft is done. I’m in substantive editing now, so I can’t wait till it comes out next spring.

[00:04:16] Megan Porta
Same. I can’t wait to read it. That sounds so valuable. And we have a little. You have a little offer at the end. Just something to put out there for listeners. So stay tuned for that. So let’s dig in, Sandie, shall we? Let’s talk about our topic at hand, which is why. Why your recipes aren’t showing up on Google.

[00:04:37] Megan Porta
So I guess to start, what do you think? What’s the most common frustration? Just that we’re creating this content, we’re putting so much work into keyword research and it just doesn’t show up.

[00:04:50] Sandie Markle
So it’s funny because I. Funny meaning ironic. I. I’m always talking to different creators, just, you know, casually. And someone I spoke to recently really said something that I feel like sums it up. I feel that creators, from their perspective, I mean, you are told all along, structure, structure, structure metadata, metadata on site, SEO, tech SEO.

[00:05:23] Sandie Markle
So that your content is very much structured. It’s like great, right? It has power, the discoverability that you have needed. But then it felt like almost a betrayal because the same structure that you were told that you needed to have ended up being why your recipes were scraped by AI. So it, it almost was like well, we were told, like this is supposed to help us, but it’s not actually helping us anymore.

[00:05:52] Sandie Markle
So I think, you know, and then of course there’s that. And so there, that’s why it’s such a moral question that’s almost stronger and more at the top of people’s minds than the operational one. This, it feels like a, well, it is this ethical, moral conversation that’s always coming up, you know, and, and I think that speaks to the heart of a lot of things that have a lot of people’s feelings around what technology has done.

[00:06:23] Sandie Markle
So, you know, this pro tech or pro human debate really boils down to that, in my opinion.

[00:06:32] Megan Porta
Yeah. Okay, well then how do we, how do we like, think around this? Because this is a new way of thinking. We didn’t have to think this way even a couple years ago. So how do we get around this?

[00:06:47] Sandie Markle
So I think first and foremost, I really like to empower creators to think, think back on a time where, when they first started, you know, most, most creators at this particular time, they’ve been like yourself, creating on platforms for years. And the idea of doing anything technical felt very new. It felt very overwhelming.

[00:07:12] Sandie Markle
And, but you did it. You know, there’s, you know, all this SEO information, you know, all these, about these Google platforms. So even just changing the narrative, it’s like, if you could do it then, you can do it now. So I just wanted to start off there first. And I think when it comes to the amount of information that is out, I do see a lot of experts really trying to share a lot of information with regard to, you know, enhancing the discoverability and rethinking, helping creators rethink their strategy around how they post, why they post on their channels.

[00:07:57] Sandie Markle
And so I think the most important thing is really deciding that how you did things before no longer works. But that’s okay. And your content itself is still very valuable. So, you know, picking on like something, you know, something specific that you really want to work on and amplify and finding those resources because there’s, there’s way more resources out there than ever before.

[00:08:31] Sandie Markle
And you know about like, what’s going on now. And it’s almost like saying, okay, I never thought I would need to learn how to, you know, use a DSLR camera or, you know, get into the back end of the my CMS on my WordPress page. But, you know, because of the resources that you had back then, you were able to do it now.

[00:08:52] Sandie Markle
So I think just really identifying experts and resources that, you know, you feel, don’t make you feel overwhelmed and just, you know, just start plugging away at it, really trying different things out and keeping an open mind. Because there’s a lot of things, you know, you don’t know what you don’t know.

[00:09:11] Sandie Markle
And so really, if there are, like, ethical concerns, really challenging the experts that are encouraging certain things and asking the questions that you. You want to know about, instead of just kind of rejecting a certain path as a whole. So it’s more of a mindset shift going back to, you know, because I think we stayed on this path for a long time, this way of discoverability.

[00:09:39] Sandie Markle
But usually, you know, technological advances, they shift very quickly. So this is just the biggest shift that has happened in a long time. But I do think that creators are able to, you know, you know, get like, not just overcome this situation, but really kind of grab them all by the horns when they realize they’re sitting on gold and that’s their content.

[00:10:05] Megan Porta
Yeah, yeah.

[00:10:06] Sandie Markle
From a structural perspective. From a structural perspective, yeah.

[00:10:11] Megan Porta
Yeah. So, like, basically what you’re saying is this. This isn’t an issue. Like, it’s not necessarily an SEO issue. We have to wrap our heads around this new way of thinking and this new mindset and then reframing it, basically.

[00:10:28] Sandie Markle
Yeah. And it’s. It’s all about, you know, you know, I think also because we’re also zoomed in on AI, you know, from a, you know, technical technology perspective. But zooming out and also realizing the way people are. Are navigating through content has changed. You know, I always talk about this story about, you know, know, when apps became a thing, you know, Android and iPhone came out, and it’s like, there’s an app for this, there’s an app for that.

[00:11:01] Sandie Markle
And I was holding on to my BlackBerry with everything I could possibly do. I just, I was like, I’m not gonna get an iPhone. I’m not gonna get an Android. I just like my BlackBerry. But eventually I did. And I, I, of course, it really revolutionized the way we handle our lives.

[00:11:21] Sandie Markle
And so because human behavior has changed. So as content creators, I also think it’s good to just step back and say, well, how are people’s behaviors? How is my behavior changing? And do I want to be part of the way people’s behavior is changed? Like, what? The content that they consume is still the same.

[00:11:42] Sandie Markle
People in this context, you know, still want to find recipes and cook recipes and engage and have these connections with these food creators. But the way they’re navigating around that is different. And so how do you keep yourself moving along with that, that, that journey, that human behavioral shift. And so understanding the way people are discovering and finding, you know, make sure you’re, you’re there with them, I think is also a way, a good way of looking at it too.

[00:12:17] Megan Porta
So how do we do that? Because yeah, we all are sensing that shift. We know things are changing massively in the way that we all consume things. So how do we stay with people?

[00:12:29] Sandie Markle
So when I read this article, I wrote about it in my Substack a few weeks, I don’t know, a few months ago about this idea of zero click discovery and you know, and that, I mean there’s so many things people are calling in now that it’s, you know, adjacent to AEO. Some people say AEO doesn’t exist but whatever, it’s, it’s just, you know, people are not like searching and then clicking.

[00:12:56] Sandie Markle
They’re doing something else. They’re asking, they’re prompting ChatGPT or Claude I was looking for a sourdough recipe and I did the old fashioned way and went on Google and I searched and then I found one and I’m going through the recipe card and then the content creator had these icons to send the recipe to a chatbot ChatGPT, Claude. And I thought oh that’s interesting.

[00:13:28] Sandie Markle
I was talking to someone else about it and another she’s pretty big blogger and she says she’s also experimenting with it that too. And I think that, and that’s very low lift, you know and it’s very low risk because you can, it’s probably a plugin of some kind most likely. I think experimentation is also good because the great thing about the, the, the plugins that also create structure is that it allows you to experiment as well because.

[00:14:00] Sandie Markle
And seeing if these solutions amplify your visibility towards finding these creator finding home cooks are if there I was, I was experimenting with DuckDuckGo the other day I did a post about it and found that DuckDuckGo is not actually a search engine. And, but, but even like what, how it recommends, how it recommends food recipe sites is really interesting.

[00:14:34] Sandie Markle
So I think experimentation is really important. It’s not like all or nothing. That’s my point. If you find that something works for you, do your research, see all the ins and outs, the implications if your privacy is at risk. But a lot of recipe sites are a really big search, you know, opportunity and so a lot of these tech companies are, they’re trying to find solutions, you know, for recipe platforms for content creators.

[00:15:11] Sandie Markle
So I would say, you know, do like experiment, like look around, click around other people’s sites and see what’s, what they’re doing. And the great thing about the creator community is like you could just reach out to somebody and be like, hey, I saw you do this, like, how’s it, how’s that going?

[00:15:28] Sandie Markle
And if it doesn’t, it doesn’t fly with you. You don’t, like, you always take it down, you know. But I think, and also I think it’s important to look outside of the food community because the creator economy is vast and see how. But the implications of AI is the same across the entire creator economy because it’s about IP, but also seeing like what other people are doing and, and what tools they’re using as well, just to kind of, you know, open up your perspective.

[00:16:05] Sandie Markle
And I know more and more a lot of tech companies are creating tools that are AI powered for creators, you know, platforms to help them give them solutions or tools. If you’re in a conversation with a solutions architect, somebody and somebody who’s onboarding you with a tool, ask them questions about these, these services, these solutions.

[00:16:30] Sandie Markle
Don’t just think about the end result because it’s really important, you know, for creators to understand the way things work. Because if you understand the principles behind the way things work, you can apply that to the different parts of your business, the different parts of your content. Because a lot of the times they’re also product people, engineers, and they can really break things down for you as well.

[00:16:54] Sandie Markle
So just taking all the information, experimenting and you can just do like a small subset, subset of your content that you want to kind of try things out on so that it’s low risk. But that’s what I would really asking questions, experimenting and seeing what other creators are doing across different industries.

[00:17:18] Megan Porta
Yeah, so you mentioned tech companies a few times and how they’re looking for solutions too. Do you have any examples? Because I don’t like when you say that. It’s like, well what, like what are they? I don’t really. Yeah.

[00:17:31] Sandie Markle
Oh yeah, well, we all like, you see them all the time. So Grocers List now Grow, you know, they have, you know, these solutions and they are using technology, you know, for, for creators. I saw a whole bunch like Allspice is another one. There’s another one that I, that I, it’s like, I think Mention Link is another one.

[00:17:53] Sandie Markle
There’s a lot of different ones, you know, even, even Clariti. You know, all of these companies, they’re tech companies and they’re trying to find solutions to the extent that they use AI varies, but they’re, they’re tech platforms that want to work with creators. And I think one of the things is like, not thinking about just, oh, this company helps me, my recipes surface better or gave me, gives me data analytics for my, for my recipes.

[00:18:29] Sandie Markle
That’s good. But, you know, I, I don’t just, I, I talk about what’s happening now very succinctly, but I talk about what’s next. How do you get all the information that you need to be ready for what’s next? Because creators, everyone, we were very much not ready in general for what’s happening now, but it doesn’t always have to be that way.

[00:18:53] Sandie Markle
And so if creators could really leverage all these resources and to be ready for what’s coming next to position themselves and their content to last, that would be great. And so that’s what I always encourage. Because the tech community and the creative community never really intersect the way that it should. So I think that.

[00:19:23] Sandie Markle
But I want to empower creators and those listening to, you know, if you’re in a room with someone virtually or in person, really ask them about, you know, the things that you’ve seen or heard. Those are the people that, that can give you the answers. So you, you want to be not just a customer, but a strategic partner.

[00:19:45] Sandie Markle
That’s the ultimate goal. Always. Especially the time that we’re living in right now.

[00:19:50] Megan Porta
Yeah, yeah. We are in a new time, aren’t we? I love, I loved your suggestion of just going to other people’s sites and kind of seeing what they’re doing. And then just if you’re curious about it, just ask them and just ask them, how’s that working? What, you know, like the Allspice Labs, I think you mentioned.

[00:20:11] Megan Porta
I’ve been curious about that. And I, I mean, it can’t hurt to just experiment and ask around.

[00:20:17] Sandie Markle
So, yeah, I mean, this is like an unsponsored suggestion. I, I personally, I’m, you know, tech agnostic. But, you know, in the last few creator food creator events that I’ve gone to, I was very pleasantly surprised to see more tech companies in attendance because I think, you know, you know me, Megan, I, I’m always an advocate for visibility when it comes to, you know, if you are a tech company, you know, you can’t serve the community without being present, without being visible, without being in a room and understanding what the pain points are.

[00:21:00] Sandie Markle
And so, and I think that, you know, there should be some healthy competition. So you can have something to compare things to. And so I think, I think people will start to see more and more of these kinds of founders and startups attending, because despite what creators may think, they know the value of a creator economy, they will never thrive without them.

[00:21:27] Sandie Markle
And so even though it doesn’t feel like that, it doesn’t feel, you know, that’s not, they’re not saying that openly in a room. But I’m telling you, you know, that’s exactly how it is. And so I think just, you know, seeing what, what you can, what creators can really get out of those, those partnerships in a really substantial way, there’s a lot to be had.

[00:21:53] Megan Porta
Yeah, I totally agree. So can you kind of just lay out the differences or like, define like blog content, which is what we used to define. I mean, that’s all we used to focus on, was blog content and then structured content. What is the difference?

[00:22:09] Sandie Markle
So I think from a creative perspective, it’s actually the same thing. So in order, in the beginning, back in the Blogger universe, when we had the Google Blogger, it was just a block of text. But the rise of the recipe plugin actually has made content more structured. So this structured content is a principle that has been in existence for decades.

[00:22:40] Sandie Markle
And basically, you know, you read about metadata and schema, you know, basically the way. And the great thing about recipes is that it’s inherently structured. You have the title and you have the steps and then you have the instruction instructions. So all of these things are modular because you’re able to take those pieces of metadata and actually do a lot of things with them.

[00:23:05] Sandie Markle
You know, you’re able to shop the ingredients, you’re able to add the instructions to a voice assistant. Chatbots are able to ask questions based on the different things that are part of the recipe itself. As a matter of fact, I wrote about this. I was guest posting on a Substack the other day and I talked about.

[00:23:27] Sandie Markle
It was called the Recipe Paradox. Whenever I go into. I speak at a lot at content strategy conferences and very like nerdy SEO, that SEO, AI, content engineering type things and they always use the recipe to describe content models. But so everyone, I would say a majority of food bloggers, your recipes are structured because you’re using a recipe plugin.

[00:23:58] Sandie Markle
The reason why I talk about yesterday someone sent me a comment on Facebook and they’re like, well, I thought you, you know, because I use this plugin, my, my content is structured. So I’m confused. So my message is, yes, your structure, your content is structured, but that’s not all it can do because it’s structured.

[00:24:18] Sandie Markle
And that’s the shift that I want people to realize because it’s structured. You have been able to do these things on your blog, but you know, the, the solutions, the apps, you know, like for example, when we first worked together, Megan, you know, there’s a lot of things we were able to do with your content because of the format of the content itself.

[00:24:43] Sandie Markle
We’re able to ingest it and do certain things with it. So that was like a lot of years ago, you know. And so my message is to reimagine, to really think, think about like, oh, what can my content become because of these things? Like, I was, I met someone recently and they were like, oh, do I have to fill in all of my metadata fields?

[00:25:08] Sandie Markle
And my answer is yes, yes, yes, you do.

[00:25:10] Megan Porta
Yeah.

[00:25:11] Sandie Markle
Even if, even if you don’t, especially now, because you don’t know what possibilities will exist for you because there’s certain metadata in your, in your. Embedded in your content. So that’s what I talk about, structured content. It’s those metadata fields, it’s the schema page that has allowed you to be discovered both through SEO.

[00:25:37] Sandie Markle
But that’s not the only way that the structured content can and has been used for omnichannel publishing, channels being off web apps, smart assistants, voice assistance.

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[00:27:11] Megan Porta
So for recipe cards, if you have a good recipe card, there’s a lot of metadata opportunities in there.

[00:27:39] Megan Porta
So are you saying just make sure you go and fill in like keywords? I know is one option that people ignore because it’s like, what key? How is that tied to my. We, we’re not sure how exactly. Like, you know what I mean? Like the fields apply so sometimes we just sweep by them.

[00:27:58] Megan Porta
But we shouldn’t do that.

[00:28:00] Sandie Markle
Okay, so one of the tips that I always give people because I, I did this like, because I always worked with proprietary websites like built from scratch. So since I’ve started Blueberri, I’ve done a bigger, deeper dive into WordPress. So I feel like I learned more about WordPress in the last few years.

[00:28:21] Sandie Markle
And plugins, recipe plugins. So one of the things I noticed just because I’m in tech is that plugins offer a lot of features, underutilized features. And so, so one of the things that I think is really interesting, I feel like tools is a very important one, even though, even if it’s not visible on your page, because I had this huge, I worked with this huge client one time and they wanted like a thousand microwave recipes or something like that.

[00:29:03] Sandie Markle
And then I was like, my microwave recipes like with the recipe database that I was working with at the time, you know, microwave recipes. And I realized because I had tools associated with all of the recipes, I could easily just kind of filter the recipes in and, and provide those recipes to, to the client.

[00:29:30] Sandie Markle
So you know, it’s, it’s a way of categorizing and organizing your content not just for listicles on your website, but say, for example, you know, here’s a plug for LinkedIn. You are on LinkedIn and you find that, you know, a brand that you would love to work for has this great initiative that you think is really cool and you can reach out to them and say, hey, I have, you know, 500 microwave recipes that are structured and ready to go for this, you know, this initiative that you’re doing you know, I’d love to work with you and I’d like to talk to you more about it.

[00:30:10] Sandie Markle
So I think the, you know, filling out certain fields is, is a way to make sure that you’re sharing your content with intention and you’re really ready to, for opportunity as they come and also surface new patterns that you may not do. Like I’ve talked to, you know, I asked this question a lot.

[00:30:35] Sandie Markle
I asked people, well, if your blog disappeared tomorrow, like, what would happen, like, if you just like, was gone. And you know, I’m surprised, but not surprised. A lot of people don’t have a library. They don’t have a library for their content that’s not just stored in their CMS, in their WordPress. And the limitations of doing that is that then you’re not really in control of, you know, how your library is organized and you know, just doing, you know, just a proper inventory of the assets that you have.

[00:31:15] Sandie Markle
And, and the, the value of that is, you know, always knowing what you have and what you don’t have. A lot of creators, they, if they have a lot of content like, like you do. Megan, they’ve been, you know, sharing recipes for years and years and years. Maybe they’re only optimizing 20% of their content for SEO.

[00:31:36] Sandie Markle
There’s nothing wrong with that. You know, they find that, that recipes really do well and they’re, you know, they focus on those, they, they, they optimize them. But what about the other 80%? The other 80 is also very valuable and maybe not right now, but, you know, it could have latent potential that you just don’t know about.

[00:31:58] Sandie Markle
So I think, you know, think it’s really important to organize and build up that library and continue looking for opportunities and using the right language when you’re looking for partnerships that go beyond just a, a traditional CPG brand sponsorships like, you know, whatever brand reaches out to you for recipe development, it could be something else like a meal planning platform or you know, another tech platform or whatever.

[00:32:27] Sandie Markle
You know, even a, you know, if a sustainability organization, you know, it could be anything that, you know, could use your content. But every, especially today, everyone, a lot of people have some kind of software engineering, product tech team and the value of your content really goes up when your, your content is organized and structured in a, in the right way and you know how to talk about it, you know, so that, you know, your, your equity goes really up a lot higher when you’re able to do that.

[00:33:03] Megan Porta
So this all makes sense. But what if we don’t know how to structure like, like what, what if we don’t know what, which plugins to go put metadata in and we don’t know what metadata to put in. I think that’s the hang up for a lot of people is that we, yeah, there might just not be, there might be a lack of tech knowledge.

[00:33:22] Megan Porta
Like, yeah, we have all these plugins. I don’t know where, I don’t know what’s valuable for metadata in the plugins. Do I just start, start combing through the back end or like, how, how do we go about learning that?

[00:33:34] Sandie Markle
Well, the great thing is, is through the, the uploading process now, you know, I know the most popular one is WPRM. I actually interviewed the founder Brecht. He’s a really interesting guy and he, you know, I think people create solutions for themselves first, so he’s no different. And so that one is, you know, a really powerful one.

[00:34:04] Sandie Markle
And just through, I think just really the next time, you know, anyone uploads a recipe into their plugin, really kind of look through and see and think about, okay, why is this field here? And a lot of the times you can go and, you know, don’t just use tools. You know, there’s support.

[00:34:31] Sandie Markle
I always hear people say, like, oh, the plugin support team that I use, they’re very responsive. You know, ask the people what’s going on with these tools that you’re using. Ask them why these things are there. There shouldn’t be a reason why everyone’s just like, confused. You know, they have created these solutions.

[00:34:50] Sandie Markle
They’re very powerful. They have a lot of possibility within them. I think that, you know, especially in the food creator community with these plugins, a lot of opportunity is there. Creators are like 80% of the way to a lot of things. It’s just knowing, you know, like what you said, not knowing what to do.

[00:35:17] Sandie Markle
But you, you’re already doing it by going in there and making sure that you know what it means for your content going forward, not just right now. So that, that would be my recommendation as well. And

[00:35:34] Megan Porta
yeah, yeah, so for WPRM or for a recipe card, that makes sense because they’re all pretty clear. But what about for other plugins? Because I’m sure those matter too. For example, Yoast or, I don’t know, whatever else it is, like going, just going in on the back end and just exploring that. If you have questions, reach out to the plugin owner and just ask or Google it or use AI to figure it out.

[00:35:59] Megan Porta
I don’t know.

[00:36:02] Sandie Markle
Yeah, well, I think any tool, you should do that too, right? Because they’re all so like Yoast and you know, Ahrefs or whatever you use that. That should just be, you know, simple because not simple. It should be standard operating procedure. You know, you should always go through and you know, on these websites they say, oh, I can do this, this, this and that, you know, and most of the time there’s a support person or account manager or something.

[00:36:34] Sandie Markle
And you know, you really want to understand. I, because I’m not an SEO expert per se, I’m not as familiar with the metadata, but I do know that, you know, that particular, those particular types of plugins, I mean, to the making of plugins, right? There’s no end. But you know, if it’s supposed to do something, it’s supposed to like, you’re supposed to help you with your SEO and.

[00:37:04] Sandie Markle
But now SEO is changing. I’m sure they’re making updates and changes to it and they’re sending you updates and emails like, now we have this, now we can do that. Well, how does that connect? Because it’s very much related to your content. So everything goes back to your content at the end of the day.

[00:37:23] Sandie Markle
Right. And so, but it’s very much on platform. Yoast is going to continue to help you with your web discoverability. But your recipe card, the structure of your content can help you beyond. That’s why I always talk about like really understand because the, the recipe plugin itself has the. If your, your, your content doesn’t have the metadata within your recipe card.

[00:37:50] Sandie Markle
Well, it doesn’t matter what other plugin you put in. You know, you, you, it. What if you didn’t have a, if you didn’t have WPRM or WP Tasty or what. Whichever. Even if you added those other plugins, like, who cares, right? If you had an email plugin, you know, so going back to the fundamentals of.

[00:38:09] Sandie Markle
Okay, here is the plugin page. It has all these, these features. What are these things actually? What are they doing and how can I apply those things to, to other opportunities that may, may come up or what I see other people doing, you know, is there a relationship there? What has made this partnership easier to, to, to do?

[00:38:32] Sandie Markle
Because I’ve, I’ve seen partnerships happen where they want to work with someone, but their content is like unusable, you know, because. Or it’s just a heavier lift, you know, to use it. It’s not a traditional. Is unlike traditional media. So it’s. Yeah, it’s important to kind of know and understand what, what, what your structured content in those plugins actually allows you to do.

[00:39:06] Sandie Markle
And it just, like I said, going back, just simple questioning and understanding. There’s a lot of information out there. And, and through my, you know, I have a Substack Blueberri Pie, I have a blog and I also, I write a lot about those things too. It’s like open source information kind of just bridging the gap between like, okay, you, you heard this and you see this.

[00:39:30] Sandie Markle
Well, how, what does, why should I care about that? You know, why is that important? What is metadata? What is structured content? I talk a lot about that in this context as well.

[00:39:41] Megan Porta
Yeah. So I think just knowing if someone’s listening and they’re like, I don’t even know what you’re talking about. I think just knowing which plugins carry weight, like you’ve said recipe card plugin Yoast. And then, you know, just digging into that as much as you can and educating yourself on what metadata is, like you said, and why do you need to put in keywords on your recipe card?

[00:40:05] Megan Porta
What is, where does that go? Like, where do those keywords, keywords even, like, what does it really. I don’t even know what, what it relates to, but I fill them in because I, you know, like extensively because of everything we’re talking about. Like, it has to benefit me somehow. But just knowing that I think is step one, just being aware of the weight certain plugins carry and then what metadata means.

[00:40:29] Megan Porta
It’s giving, like, it’s giving your, your data back end information that’s valuable. And we don’t really know the extent to which it carries. Like Pinterest. I mean, we haven’t even talked about Pinterest, but I’m sure that it relates to other platforms as well. You know, like platforms that we don’t even have on our radars right now.

[00:40:52] Megan Porta
So just having that knowledge, I think is really important.

[00:40:57] Sandie Markle
Yeah. And I would say, I would say that, you know, that’s really the point because, you know, like, it’s like every time a new Google update comes, you know, you’re, you’re the people who aren’t as affected as much or at all probably were doing things that, you know, maybe they didn’t talk about, maybe they just said, okay, well I’m just going to have these things in place.

[00:41:27] Sandie Markle
And then so the impact wasn’t as great or, you know, somehow they’re surfacing to other, you know, brands or companies and, and they say, oh, well, this, this, this person’s side or this person’s content keeps surfacing. Like, I think I want to reach out to them or, or something like that. So I think it’s, it’s more about, you know, being ready for what’s next.

[00:41:56] Megan Porta
What’s.

[00:41:57] Sandie Markle
What’s happening next? Because, you know, the solutions for your website are there. You know, you can, you can plug away at certain things and, and, and, and I really encourage people to have to create some kind of a library. I talk about this a lot. Do not let your content only exist on your WordPress site.

[00:42:20] Sandie Markle
It needs to be someplace else that you can control and organize. And, you know, with the metadata. A lot of people don’t know a lot of plugins. You can export your, your content in a JSON file. Like, I know people don’t do that a lot. I would say try that. It doesn’t even matter if you don’t even understand, like, what you’re actually doing.

[00:42:44] Sandie Markle
Just, just click that export and just look at it and see what it is. I had a Substack that I called Who’s JSON and What’s He Doing in My Recipes? It’s just good to know what’s going on and why these things are there. The developers of a recipe plugin has put an export feature of JSON in your plugin.

[00:43:16] Sandie Markle
Why? Why did they put that there? You know, and it’s overwhelming. I know it’s. I get overwhelmed too, with all the things, but, you know, I, My soapbox is just bringing awareness and at least for people to say, I don’t even need to know this happens. I heard Sandie say something about this.

[00:43:38] Sandie Markle
What is that? You know, when you’re talking to somebody, how does that relate to me and my content? So that’s what I want kind of people’s wheels to be turning in their head.

[00:43:47] Megan Porta
So I, I know not everyone’s gonna know what you just said about JSON. Can you just briefly explain that? So people aren’t like, who is JSON? Like, what are you talking about?

[00:43:55] Sandie Markle
Yeah, so, so JSON, J, S, O, N, JSON. People, you know, pronounce it differently. It’s a programming language. It’s actually, I think, the universal programming language. And it’s used across platforms, apps, Alexa, and it relies on structured content and shopability. So I always, I tell this story sometimes. I remember being in a meeting and, and, you know, I would always hear people, they would say, with engineers and product, and they would, they kept saying, JSON, JSON.

[00:44:36] Sandie Markle
Send the JSON. And I’m like, who in the world is Jason?

[00:44:39] Megan Porta
Who is this guy?

[00:44:41] Sandie Markle
Yeah. So I had to look it up and I ended up using it a lot even as part of the content team that I led because, you know, it really powered in all of the, you know, the ingredient. What is that? Shop this ingredient or shop these ingredient, you know, buttons that people have on their recipe card.

[00:45:01] Sandie Markle
All of those things rely on JSON code and you can just export it just like that from your recipe card. So just understanding those things and you know, how it relates to schema and how that relates to metadata. So that when people, like for example, if a platform wants to work with you and you know, you ask them, okay, how’s it?

[00:45:25] Sandie Markle
How are you going to get my content? Or, or you could say, hey, my content is structured and the JSON code is clean. That is really good leverage for, you know, monetization opportunities because, you know, the work that they have to do with your content. Also if it’s a heavy lift, then that doesn’t really give you an opportunity to, you know, monetize properly.

[00:45:52] Sandie Markle
So that’s what JSON is, J S O N a programming language.

[00:45:56] Megan Porta
And it’s not something that you have to go like figure out necessarily just having the knowledge because it’s taken care of if you have a good reputable recipe card.

[00:46:06] Sandie Markle
Yeah, but isn’t that amazing? Like, you don’t even have to be a software engineer. All the heavy lifting has been done for you. You just have to understand what’s under the hood. It’s like, you know, when you get your first car and you know, if you have a brand new car with all the bells and whistles and they said all you have to do is take it to the get oil change, you know, every 8,000 miles.

[00:46:29] Sandie Markle
You know, you don’t have to build the engine yourself, like it’s just ready to go. It’s just understanding what’s under the hood, which I always talk about.

[00:46:37] Megan Porta
Yeah, absolutely. Is there anything else? What else have we missed? Sandie, before we start saying goodbye, anything you want to mention?

[00:46:47] Sandie Markle
Well, I just want to mention too. I know I want to go back to, you know, AI being this moral dilemma versus an operational one. I know I speak a lot about, you know, structured content and the possibilities and, you know, the way I present my information. I’m, I’m in tech. You know, I’m a tech person.

[00:47:11] Sandie Markle
But I also love food and food creators and I just really encourage people to think about the future. You know, legacy is so important and you know, this idea of disappearing, it creates a lot of angst, but there’s so much opportunity and information and questions that can be answered. That’s out there.

[00:47:36] Sandie Markle
And you know, I’m really, I’m actually very hopeful and really excited about the future. And, and I, that’s just what I’m going to keep talking about. And you know, if anyone has questions like they see something on my Substack or something that I say, I just launched a voice podcast that’s called The Blueberri Podcast.

[00:47:56] Sandie Markle
And I get into a lot of nitty gritty stuff because I do, I do talk about like how to strategy and structured content in teams and things like that. But I feel why I like to speak to and share my content with creators is because I don’t want the conversation to be so siloed anymore.

[00:48:16] Sandie Markle
I don’t want tech companies to be on one side and creators to be on another. I want to create a bridge so that at least there’s more information and knowledge that will empower creators to really continue to be a part of the conversation, to continue to make and have and build content that lasts not just now, but like 50 years into the future.

[00:48:40] Sandie Markle
So I’m hopeful, I’m excited. I think, I think there’s a path forward to that. So yeah, I just continue to, you know, listen to great podcasts like this and see where you fit in and do, you know, a little bit at a time with. It doesn’t have to be so vast, but just look at the tools that you have, you know, question and use those resources, those support teams.

[00:49:05] Sandie Markle
If they have five minute calls with you, just ask a question that’s that you’ve been wondering about. I think that will help you in the way forward.

[00:49:14] Megan Porta
Amazing. And I love your perspective too. Just your positive approach. You’re always so positive and, and hopeful and I love that you’re excited about the future. I think the people who are excited about what’s to come right now are the ones who are just gonna thrive. There’s so many people who feel the exact opposite of that.

[00:49:31] Megan Porta
So appreciate you, Sandie, and all that you do. Thank you.

[00:49:35] Sandie Markle
Thank you. Megan. You’re awesome.

[00:49:37] Megan Porta
Yeah. Oh, you’re awesome. And we kind of mentioned your book in the beginning, which I cannot wait to read. And you have an offer for people. Do you want to talk about that?

[00:49:47] Sandie Markle
Yeah. So my book Create Once, Share Everywhere I want it to be. It’s a prescriptive nonfiction book that, and that means I want it to be dog eared. I’m a compulsive highlighter. I won’t post its. You know, this is not a vanity book for me. And because of that, I’m opening up an opportunity, opportunity for people to become early readers of the book.

[00:50:14] Sandie Markle
And what that means is, you know, I’ll send you an advanced copy of the book before it even goes to print. So please. There’s going to be probably grammatical errors or typos, but what I really want early readers to help me with is to make sure that they’re being guided along the book properly.

[00:50:32] Sandie Markle
You know, the reader journey, the messaging really lands where it’s supposed to, and so I’m opening that up to them. And you’ll get it. I’ll. I’ll send an email out like a month in advance and let them know what the timeline is. But I’m really, I’m really close. I’m in substantive editing now and I would really, you know, want people to participate who are willing to, yeah, read the book and give me some feedback.

[00:50:57] Sandie Markle
I’d share, like maybe 10 or so questions about the book and, yeah, get their feedback. So if they could email me if they’re interested at [email protected], that’s Blueberri with an I and express their interest, I would love to have them. I have some in my list already, but the more the merrier.

[00:51:19] Sandie Markle
So that would be great if they could join.

[00:51:23] Megan Porta
Awesome. That’s so exciting. Yeah. Again, so excited about that and thank you for everything today. I think this just gives us a unique perspective. The whole tech side we don’t often think through. We’re just, we’re just content creators putting out our amazing content and we don’t often get that side like, oh, there’s a whole tech world that we need to consider and explore and, you know, so thank you for everything you provided today.

[00:51:52] Sandie Markle
Absolutely.

[00:51:54] Megan Porta
Yeah. We will put your show notes together, Sandie. We’ll put those at eatblogtalk.com/blueberri2. This is the second time Blueberri’s been on, so you can find everything we’ve talked about there. And let’s see, have we mentioned, like, social. Social media? You did mention your email. If people want to reach out that way.

[00:52:14] Megan Porta
How else can they reach you?

[00:52:16] Sandie Markle
They can find me on LinkedIn @SandieMarkle and also on Instagram @BlueberriHQ and Facebook. @BlueberriHQ. Actually, in all places @BlueberriHQ.

[00:52:32] Megan Porta
All right, well, go check Sandie out and thanks again, Sandie, for being here and thanks for listening, food bloggers. I’ll see you next time. 

[00:52:49] Outro

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