Episode 308: Email Marketing Tactics That Work with Lauren Grow

308_LAUREN_GROW

Lauren Grow: Hi, this is Lauren Grove from the Talk About Town and you are listening to the Eat Blog Talk podcast.

Sponsor: Hey, awesome food bloggers. Before we dig into this episode, I have a really quick favor to ask you. Go to your favorite podcast player. Go to Eat Blog Talk. Scroll down to the bottom where you see the ratings and review section. Leave Eat Blog Talk a five star rating if you love this podcast and leave a great review. This will only benefit this podcast. It adds value. I so very much appreciate your efforts with this. Thank you so much for doing this. Okay. Now onto the episode.

Megan Porta: Hello there, food bloggers. Welcome to Eat Blog Talk, the podcast for food bloggers, looking for the value and confidence that will move the needle forward in their businesses. This episode is sponsored by RankIQ. I am your host, Megan Porta, and you are listening to episode number 308. Today, Lauren is here with me and she is going to talk to us about email marketing tactics. Lauren Grow, the owner and founder of Talk About Town, a marketing agency, focusing on clients in the blogging space, has been hard at work connecting readers with recipes for over five years and approaching six years. Beginning as a social media writer for Fresh April Flowers, Lauren has scaled her business and currently has 20 clients in the blogging world on any given day. An expert in email marketing, Lauren specializes in creating a consistent, approachable and profitable email plan for clients ranging from big to small. Lauren prides herself on owning the voice of her client and adapting to the needs of the reader. In Lauren’s world, it’s all about opens and clicks. Lauren, I’m super excited for our chat today. How are you? 

Lauren Grow: I’m doing well, Megan, how are you doing? 

Megan Porta: I am good as well. I’m so happy to have this chat with you. But before we dig into email, we want to hear what your fun fact is. 

Lauren Grow: Yes, of course. I was thinking about this one. I’m ready to share. One of my most recent fun facts. It was right before the pandemic, was early March, 2020. I stumbled upon a big time fixer upper home. It was built in 1850. It’s a brick home in Westchester, Pennsylvania outside of Philadelphia. I had great timing. I ended up purchasing the home, which was my first home and it was a full remodel. A full guts. My dad who was incredible in remodeling the entire thing himself, we worked on it for about nine months. It’s where I live now. But I learned a lot through that process. 

Megan Porta: Oh my gosh. An entire remodel, you have to have learned so much. 

Lauren Grow: I did. I am not quite ready to decorate another home anytime soon. It was a once in a lifetime opportunity and I am grateful for my dad and my boyfriend and my brother who helped on that project. 

Megan Porta: Oh, amazing how your little team came together and accomplished such a huge feat within nine months. I think that’s a really short timeframe considering the entire house got redone. So cool. I love that. I bet you are just over decorating and preparing a house. Maybe another decade or so. 

Lauren Grow: Yes, definitely. 

Megan Porta: Yes. Thank you for sharing that. You are here to talk about email marketing tactics. I’m always excited to learn about this topic. It’s something that I personally like to dabble in occasionally when I talk to someone who knows a lot about it, I get inspired and I’m like, I should probably do more. But I don’t consistently keep it up and maybe this will come up in our conversation, like how to be consistent with it. But I would love it if you just started out giving us an overview of why you believe email marketing is so important.

Lauren Grow: Sure. Absolutely. I came to love email marketing for a number of reasons, but I believe the reason I love it is actually the reason why it’s important. It’s a list of people who are your biggest fans. They have already raised their hands as someone who is interested in hearing what you have to say, interested in the product or service or a recipe in this instance, that you provide. You own that list. You own the people who are your biggest fans. We all know, we all talk about it. If Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, fill in the blank, were to end tomorrow, you still have an Excel sheet or a data database of those biggest fans. Beyond that too, I think it’s probably one of the most intimate connections that we have with readers.

I think social media is very public and it can be intimate in terms of relationship building, but there’s nothing quite like receiving something in your inbox or in the olden days, maybe something in your physical mailbox, from an individual that’s personalized or meaningful. So I think it’s a great way to really build an intimate relationship with the people who are obviously important to your business.

Megan Porta: Yeah, I totally agree with that. It is such a unique way to connect and it’s something that we are in control of. I think we’ve all experienced that moment or two or maybe many more when a social media network went down or we had that moment of panic where it’s oh my gosh, what if all of my followers just vanish? Something weird happened. Stranger things have happened. So with an email list, you actually have direct access to these people and it’s all within our control, which I love. 

Lauren Grow: Yeah, absolutely. Let this be a reminder. If you have an email client and you have a number of subscribers, make sure to occasionally export those subscribers and back them up on just your desktop or your hard drive, if something were to ever happen to your account. 

Megan Porta: Oh, that is such a great recommendation. Okay. I love that. Okay. We need to start with an email service provider, or someone that we use to send out our emails to our email list. How do we go about picking the right one for us?

Lauren Grow: So of course everyone knows there are a number of options out there. They’re all competing for your business by offering competitive prices or the newest bells and whistles. I think there’s an email client or provider out there for everyone. But what I will say is I have experienced working on most and I’ll name just a couple of the heavy hitters. But MailerLite, ConvertKit, and MadMimi are out there. MailChimp, Feed Blitz. Weber is another one. I find in all of my experience that Convertkit is a service that is a little bit more expensive, but it really drives what it says it does best. Conversions, opens, clicks. I think they have expertise in deliverability and it can be pretty user-friendly to build automations, but also those one-time broadcasts. I think MailChimp, MailerLite and Flodesk are another one. They all achieve much more beautiful emails. If that’s something that’s important to you. So make sure you think about, if you’re a beginner, if you’re advanced, how large your list is and what’s really important to you at the end of the day. Many of my clients, they’re all about clicks and opens, so maybe Flodesk would not be the best option. So really review and understand the pricing levels. But pick one that aligns with your ultimate objectives and goals. 

Megan Porta: I have found that the pricing kind of is all over the place. Some of those providers have tiered pricing and some have flat pricing. So you’d literally just pay one rate forever, like Flo Desk I know is like that. So yeah, like really digging into that before you get into it, because they can go up pretty rapidly. I know ConvertKit is an amazing service, but I remember. I’m not there anymore, but when I was paying a lot of money I wasn’t really utilizing it to the best of what I should have been utilizing it for. So just having that knowledge, I think is really important. 

Lauren Grow: Yeah. Understanding a lot of people who are food bloggers and might not have a sophisticated email marketing plan or approach. I would say start with the basic level. Especially if you’re not importing thousands of subscribers right away. You could always build. I wouldn’t say shoot for the sky in terms of getting the most expensive tier with the biggest package and bells and whistles. I think just keep it basic and affordable until it’s something you can commit to. 

Megan Porta: I think that is such good advice and I love the array of options. There are so many options out there for really every price point, every need. If you want it to be prettier, if you want it to be just more functional. So there’s a lot to choose from. We can put all of that information in your show notes, just so people can see and click through and determine what is good for them. Do we get started and give us some bite-sized ways to get started with the whole scope of email marketing?

Lauren Grow: Sure. I find that a lot of people who I work with, a lot of food bloggers enter this phase of analysis paralysis. They know email marketing is important and they want to do it. I love it. But it’s just about starting small. I think that the market and the industry can overcomplicate. I think that’s not always the case for email marketing. I think it can be, you can have a simple approach and not overwhelm yourself. So I would recommend once you have picked your email client, or let’s say in this case that you already have one, set a goal for yourself to send just one email a week. That one email, you always have things to say. You can copy and paste directly from your blog. You can say, Hey I’m doing this weekend with my kids. Here’s what I plan to serve for dinner. I think there is a simple approach to that and always keeping it fresh, adding some personal tidbits, but also driving the ultimate goal of converting readers to your blog. So don’t over complicate it. Start a small aim for one email a week. Then from there, there’s a lot of opportunity to build welcome series and simple ways, opt-ins. As you’re more comfortable, obviously creating a way for people to opt in. As soon as they enter your site, have it in the top header above your logo, have an inline display for the opt-in just making sure once you’re confident that this is something that you can do once a week, making sure people can enter that community of subscribers.

Megan Porta: I love your point about just keeping it really simple, because we tend to, speaking for myself. I can tend to over-complicate things and think that I need to send this elaborate series out. Even if it is just once a week. I don’t need to include new recipes, old recipes, it doesn’t all have to be in there. So just take it back to, if you’re overwhelmed by it, literally just a couple sentences, with a link to your blog and that’s it. 

Lauren Grow: Yeah, absolutely. I think if you bring it to having a conversation with your reader and just providing an update, providing a resource for them, being the recipe, or, some other way that they can engage with you, that’s what they’re there for. Like I mentioned, the industry can overcomplicate having these elaborate series, elaborate nurture funnel series. At the end of the day, it’s really a conversation point between you and the reader. 

Megan Porta: I love that. Be the resource. If you think of it like that, it really just somehow simplifies it. You can just provide what they need that week. If there’s something seasonal or it can be anything, but that kind of takes out the complication for me, anyway. What are your thoughts about subject lines? Because I know a lot of people talk. I was talking to someone a while ago who was saying, don’t even worry about the subject line because I don’t know. They had reasoning for it, but I feel like the subject line is really important because it can either really captivate someone or really turn them off. So what are your thoughts on all of that? Yeah, I would say 

Lauren Grow: if there’s one thing that keeps me up at night in a positive way, it’s being creative with subject lines and pre header text. I think sometimes we forget about what pre-header texts can bring to the table as well. But I have many thoughts on subject lines. What I will say is, every food blogger, it can be different in this case. I think it depends a lot on your voice. If you’re not a silly person or a goofy person, then you obviously know a punchy subject line might not be the best fit. But I would encourage everyone to have as much fun with it as you can. Test a lot of different things. Some examples of that might be, try a question one week. Something like what are you serving for Easter dinner? Then maybe the following week, you flip it and you say, easiest dinner to put on your table this week. Just try different variations of simple subject lines. But I would also encourage, this is one of my favorite things to do, when you need some inspiration and say you’re focusing on Instant pot dinners, maybe think of an ingredient that’s consistent in those recipes and then type in let’s say chicken puns on the internet and see what comes up. I think you’ll find jokes or creative quips that you can incorporate into your subject lines. I’ll use one as an example. I saw somebody put a milkshake recipe in their newsletters. It was a couple of milkshake recipes, and the subject line was my milkshake brings all the readers to the yard. That was fun. Maybe it wouldn’t have the right audience, but just something creative and push the boundaries a little bit. 

Megan Porta: Oh, I like that. Push the boundaries. I am always playing with this. Like, I’ll do what you recommended and ask a question and then I’ll make a statement, but I never go back and analyze it. Are you good about doing that? 

Lauren Grow: Yeah. So marketing and this could be an entire book for email marketing analytics, but I always look at how… I believe your marketing analytics oftentimes relate to your subject line. It’s the first thing people see when the email hits the inbox. It’s often the reason people open or the reason people don’t. When I look at those analytics, I’m looking at the open rates, most importantly, and then secondly, I’m looking at the clicks. I think that’s really important and we can dive into some recommendations to drive those clicks. But something that I would encourage people, especially people who are just starting off, don’t worry about that unsubscribe rate right away. I think that’s not often a measure of success. You want screaming fans of your business and those people are the ones that are opening and clicking. So don’t get discouraged. If you’re seeing those unsubscribes they’re people who are eventually gonna move. Away from your email list anyway. So really look at the open, the clicks over time. When I test subject lines and pre-header texts especially send times and send days, I give it about a month or two of trial. I would encourage you to put something on your calendar to really look back and reflect on what that looks like.

Megan Porta: A month or two of trial and error. That is really smart advice. So it’s not like a couple of weeks. We should give it some time and let it sit there and see what happens. You mentioned that we get frustrated when people are unsubscribing. Can you touch on that a little bit? Because I hear people say this all the time in this space, that they are frustrated by that. They don’t want to go through their lists and do cleanup and get rid of the people who aren’t opening the emails. But really those are not true subscribers. So we want to get rid of those people anyway. 

Lauren Grow: Yeah, absolutely. I’ll use chef Dennis as an example. I’ve worked with him for gosh years now, probably three years. He is excellent to work with in that he understands opens, clicks, and unsubscribes. Him and I over the years, I’ve put a lot of time into list cleanup and re-engaging subscribers that have been lost or cold. But what it’s done for his email program, is it’s increased opens and clicks over time. Because he’s putting so much emphasis into consistency, but also tactics to either re-engage or get rid of the dead weight. I don’t mean to say that in a bad way. Making sure the list is people who want to be there, they’re fans, their readers. The email we sent last week, I think he reached a 10% click rate, which was incredible to see. So don’t be afraid to put time into cleaning it up and getting rid of some folks.

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Megan Porta: You touched on this a little bit earlier, but we want people to open. We want people to click. What are ways that we can get people to click more? 

Lauren Grow: Sure. I think a big opportunity is creating sentences that lead into a call to action. Especially sentences that have a button around it. So we know that sometimes in emails, not all images load, but that goes for buttons too. So make sure if you are driving folks to one specific recipe, let’s say there’s only one recipe in your email. Make sure that recipe is hyperlinked to somewhere else in the email. That is to make sure if that button didn’t load or that picture of that food item didn’t load, whether on somebody’s mobile device or desktop, there is still a way for people to click. 

Megan Porta: Oh, that’s great advice. 

Lauren Grow: I also think about just older folks or people who use technology differently. Maybe the button is something new to them or not the way that they choose to engage with the email. So giving people some options. I also think of a creative way to hyperlink and I call them hot lakes, but let’s say hyperlink instead of saying the recipe title, maybe say I know the easiest dinner recipe that you’ll love this week and then hyperlink the easiest dinner recipe. Because that’s leaving the reader curious.

Megan Porta: Yeah. Peaking curiosity a little bit. 

Lauren Grow: Absolutely. 

Megan Porta: Then also speaking of peaking curiosity, I feel like that is a good strategy also for subject lines. Just to let people guess a little bit about what you’re talking about. Like maybe allude to something, but don’t tell them. So like beef brisket, recipe included, you could say something that’s alluding to a recipe that’s coming up, but you’re not exactly stating it.

Lauren Grow: Yes, I do that all of the time. That’s something in terms of starting simple, I think you can start simple that way. You can create subject lines that are literal or you can tease it out. I just worked on an email this morning, for example. The subject line was, “it’s the weekend” with the hallelujah hands emoji. That’s not telling anybody what’s in that email, but we can infer what that looks like. It leaves people like, yeah, thank God it is the weekend. What am I going to make? 

Megan Porta: I like that. Yeah. You’ve given me a lot to think about. Okay, back to click conversions. Are there any other tricks you have for getting people to click?

Lauren Grow: I would say in terms of click and open, it’s really important to know your audience, know what their problems and challenges are and make sure that the content aligns with that. It wouldn’t make sense if all you were talking about was desserts if your niche was healthy living or healthy eating. So make sure your audience makes them want to click it. Make sure it fits their value base and what they’re there for. But I would also say, and this goes back to analytics and measurement, if you’re a busy mom or a busy dad, think about what time of day and time of week that your audience would resonate with that message. So make sure if you are sending an email about the weekend that it’s close to the weekend. People are thinking about it. But also think about when that person, your target audience, might actually want to open that email. I’ll say now that my research has shown that the weekend, despite what other research is out there, is really the best time for a lot of food bloggers to send emails. I think it’s a result of when people have time to dig into that. They’re either baking or cooking that weekend or prepping for the week ahead. So just being mindful of what time that hits the inbox to drive those clicks.

Megan Porta: Do you recommend doing a little bit of experimentation with that as well? Maybe sending it out at one time for a few weeks and then trying another day? Or how do you even go about experimenting with that?

Lauren Grow: I would say it’s very similar to the subject line research that you perform. Give a couple different things a chance. You might have a great subject line one day in the evening, for example, but that’s actually not the best time to send. So your analytics could be a little bit off. So try a segment a month or two to give that a shot and try the most common. I would say try a Tuesday morning, Wednesday evening. But then really dig into what that Saturday morning and Sunday night time and day send looks like. You might see consistent results over the course of that four to eight week timeline. 

Megan Porta: Yeah. I feel like this has gone in seasons for me. I think now we do Tuesday mornings, but for the longest time, Monday mornings worked really well. But then the person who writes my emails for me was like, oh, Mondays are no longer working. So this might even evolve over time. For some reason. It’s like the same audience, but for whatever reason, It can change. Have you ever seen anything like that? 

Lauren Grow: Yeah, absolutely. I think that’s a great point. Something important to mention that just because one time and one day works for a year, it might not always stay like that. I think we can prime the readers to expect that email newsletter on a Saturday morning, but I think throwing them off a little bit and giving them something unexpected is also important. I think that can be successful, especially if you reach that two or three email a week timeline, you can try a lot of different things. I would say too, food bloggers have such a, bloggers as a whole have such an advantage because if you look at times where you’re seeing a lot of visitation to your blog, that’s a guideline for you. That’s a shining star of saying, wow, there’s a lot of people on my site on Friday morning. Let’s try a newsletter at that time. 

Megan Porta: Yeah. Just digging into analytics just a little bit, will maybe give you a few clues. You have that little grid that shows you throughout the week where most people are joining, coming onto your site. So maybe try to align it with that and just see what happens. I think that’s a great strategy. Do you have any other email marketing tactics that you can run by us? You’ve talked about a few, but I’m wondering if you have any others quick. 

Lauren Grow: Yeah, sure. I wrote down a couple of tips I wanted to mention. In terms of ADA accessibility and making sure your emails can be digested and engaged by the reader. That’s why I wanted to mention that sometimes images and buttons don’t load. So making sure your images have that back text to explain it too. That’s important. I’ll also mention that. Buttons should have texts that is dark, not white or another color. That’s something that a lot of folks have challenges reading that contrast, so making sure they stand out. But it’s also just easier to read. Making sure that there is a call to action above the fold. We know what that means. I love that it comes from the days of newspapers and time’s gone by, but making sure when you’re looking at an email, especially on our phones, that the call to action, or at least the way a reader can engage with you is right on that screen. They don’t even have to scroll far. I’m seeing a lot of food bloggers specifically even move that button up to right under the first sentence. It looks a little weird, but it is a trend right now and it’s really to make sure people see that number one priority. It’s really to convert. 

Megan Porta: As food bloggers, we know the importance of that, right? Because we try to do that within our blog posts, get a link, a click up high so that people have the opportunity to click over. So that same practice, just pulling that into your email. I think that’s going to be well-received. Any other little tactics you wanted to mention? 

Lauren Grow: Yeah, I think I have one more that I’d like to mention. I found that in just testing different formats for newsletters and emails, that something that performed well was actually either removing blog images, so recipe images, and just replacing it with a recipe name with no image can create different engagement and clicks. People don’t know what it looks like. So they think about it in their brain and they want to see what it looks like on your site. So I think that’s something to try and then I would try the reverse of that. If you’re somebody that just puts the title of recipes and hyperlinks, maybe try to throw a picture or two in there. Trial and error for what your readers enjoy. 

Megan Porta: Something that we started doing about a year ago that I really like, and we will continue doing this for a little bit is, if we are featuring maybe four recipes, what we’ll do is we’ll put like a sliver of each of the images within one graphic. So it’ll be like, one image and you’ll see like just a sliver of each of the four recipes, if that makes sense, so you don’t get to see the full thing. So it’s a tease. It’s only one image. So you’re not putting in multiple images that need to load within the emails. So that kind of kills two birds with one stone. Then right below it, we just put the links to the recipes and that has done really well. I don’t know how we fell upon that, but I like it. So we’re running with it. It goes along with what you were saying. 

Lauren Grow: I love that idea. That leaves them wanting more. So they go to your site to see.

Megan Porta: Yeah, exactly. Little teasing is good. I think because we want people to get in and we want people to open and we want people to click. So give a little bit of something more to be desired. Pique that curiosity and then string them a little bit. You want this, come on, check it out. 

Lauren Grow: A strong email marketing program, because if somebody has that carrot dangled in front of them once, they’re probably more likely to come back the next week and be like, what’s next? So I think that’s great.

Megan Porta: All right. What are your thoughts on consistency? I know consistency is a big piece of email marketing. You start showing up, people want you to keep showing up consistently. Give us your thoughts on that. 

Lauren Grow: Absolutely. I think this goes back to keeping it nice and simple. I think if we can keep it simple and you get that weekly email marketing program up, that’s a massive success. I think you’re well on your way to creating a profitable email marketing program. Even when it’s challenging and you have other priorities and you’re busy, know that when you start, there are readers who are waiting for that communication. There are people who want to hear from you. They want to see it in your inbox. Of course, just like everything else, just like SEO on your blog, things take time, but it’s one of those things I can promise you and guarantee you that if you stick with it and really tackle some of these approaches that we’ve already spoken about. But also try some new things that are best for your audience, for your voice, that you will see positive and profitable results over time, but only if you are consistent. 

Megan Porta: Yes. I feel like this is an absolutely key point for so many pieces of our world. Just being an entrepreneur in general. So not even talking about food blogging or email marketing, but just showing up in certain areas that work consistently can reap such huge rewards. We tend to underestimate that. It’s so easy. It’s such an easy concept, but to actually show up time after time is the hard part, but I think there’s so much power there. Anything else about consistency? We have one last point I know you want to talk about, but I wanted to make sure we are done with that first.

Lauren Grow: I think that’s. It’s nice and simple, but just being there every week. I think you hit the nail on the head. 

Megan Porta: You talked a little bit before about doing some testing and experimenting. But talk a little bit more about that and how to use analytics to dig into your email list a little bit more.

Lauren Grow: We’ve talked a little bit about what it looks like to review opens, clicks and unsubscribes. But what I would encourage you to do is take it one step further. Maybe this is something that you have an email marketing program that’s working for you too, over the course of six months. So you take a deeper dive into what your emails look like on the backend. So in email providers and clients, you have the ability to open an email and see where people are. You can see if people are just hitting your first link and then they ditch out and don’t end up engaging with you in any further way. Or there might be an interesting tidbit there. If people are scrolling all the way to the bottom of your email and then click it. So think about that. I would also encourage you to look at some of your individual subscribers’ journeys. Every once in a while, I’ll go into a subscriber list and I’ll click on a random person. I have no idea who they are and I’ll just check in and see if I can learn more about who they are and how they fit into the target audience. I’ll use an example. I ended up clicking on a guy named Brian the other day. Brian lives in Washington state. So he’s on the Pacific coast. This client lived on the east coast. So also something that’s important to think about, what time of day that email’s heading Brian’s inbox. First thing in the morning, the east coast person hits send. So you can glean interesting things about that, but also watch how he entered the subscription list. So what opt-in he ended up going through, if he received a freebie, if he didn’t. If he engaged with the welcome series. But then also how often is he clicking and opening these emails? So I would encourage, again, maybe this is a 2.0 analytics guy, but really look at your readers as individuals. See what they’re liking and try to imagine who they are. Especially when you’re planning emails, but also when you’re feeling like emails are just one more thing on your list, really think about who those people are. What kind of service you’re providing them in their lives. 

Megan Porta: I think that is a tie for my second favorite point that you mentioned. So I loved the point about knowing your audience’s pain points, and maybe even having those top of mind somewhere. Having a list or somewhere where you remember them as you’re writing your emails. I think that is such an important thing. I’m actually having an email to schedule for next week. So I’m going to have that in my brain as I write it.

So thank you for that. Then yeah, tied with looking at one subscriber’s journey and just taking the journey with them, see where they went from where to where, and which opt-in. The whole journey that they went through and your whole marketing scheme. So those are my two favorites. Are there any other things you want to mention before we start saying goodbye? Anything we missed, Lauren? 

Lauren Grow: I don’t think so. I know that in previous podcasts, you’ve dove into welcome series and opt-ins and their importance. But I think we covered the tactical approaches that I really wanted to highlight today. 

Megan Porta: Okay. Great. Thank you. This was so great. It gave me a few different email related nuggets to think about and carry away with me from our conversations. So it was super valuable and we just appreciate you. 

Lauren Grow: Thank you so much, Megan. It was such a pleasure to be on this podcast. I’m such a fan and I really appreciate your time and hello to everyone out there. 

Megan Porta: Ah, yes. I love that. We will put together a show notes for you, Lauren. You can find those at eatblogtalk.com/talkabouttown. Why don’t you tell everyone where they can find you online and on social media, et cetera? 

Lauren Grow: You can find me online at talkabouttown.org. I am also accessible by email, of course. That’s [email protected]. 

Megan Porta: Great. Thank you again so much, Lauren, for joining us today and thank you for listening today, food bloggers. I will see you in the next episode. 

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