Episode 341: Strategies to Segment your Email List (+ Why this Converts Subscribers More Easily) with Allea Grummert

EBT341_Allea Grummert

Allea Grummert: Hi, this is Allea Grummert from Duett and you are listening to the Eat Blog Talk podcast. 

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Hey, food bloggers. Welcome to Eat Blog Talk, the podcast for food bloggers, looking for the value and confidence that will move the needle forward in their businesses. This episode is sponsored by RankIQ. I am your host, Megan Porta, and you are listening to episode number 341. I have Allea Grummert with me today. I’m so excited. We’re gonna have a conversation about how to segment your email subscribers so you can get higher conversion rates and more revenue. 

Allea is the email marketing strategist and conversion, copywriter, and owner of Duett. She helps bloggers and content creators make a killer first impression through automated welcome and nurture sequences. She accomplishes this by helping clients build intentional email strategies that engage readers, build brand loyalty and optimize conversions for sales and site traffic. Allea also holds the coveted spot as the email marketing industry expert for the Food Blogger Pro membership community. She is a recommended expert through Nerd Press and she’s been featured on industry podcasts, including The Copywriter club podcast, Systems Saved Me and the Food Blogger Pro podcast. Allea, such a pleasure to have you here. How are you doing today? 

Allea Grummert: I am good. That’s a long intro. Wait, you had to take a deep breath for that. My apologies for the whole long list of all the things, but yeah. I get to work with some pretty awesome people. 

Megan Porta: Yes you do. 

Allea Grummert: I’ve been looking forward to this. 

Megan Porta: That was actually a short intro. I have some that are longer and yeah it’s not something. Obviously that I say often, like they’re all individualized. So sometimes it does become a mouthful, all the strategist’s words. 

Allea Grummert: There are a lot of big words in there. 

Megan Porta: I got through it. I think I did pretty good. But yeah, we would love to hear your fun fact, Allea.

Allea Grummert: I have two, because I could never not tell anyone this, but I was actually born without a sense of smell. So that’s like my super weird fun fact. One of my very best friends, we’re celebrating 15 years of friendship this month. I met her right before college. But she and I were roommates for five years. That girl would smell my clothes for me. Just nose straight to the armpit. I’m like, Lord, I could not pray for a better friend, this is the one. There’s a reason why we’ve been friends for 15 years. I’m sure I benefit her in some ways. But when we lived together, I would just have a pile of clothes and she’d give me a thumbs up or a thumbs down. We would just go on with our. But now she’s married with a kid and I am grateful that I have a boyfriend who’s not afraid to stick his nose in my armpit because I just have a terrible fear of stinking. So I’m like, you know what, maybe I’ll just shower. Yep. You know what? I’ll shower. 

Megan Porta: Just go to the default. Always shower when in doubt . 

Allea Grummert: Yeah. So it’s my super weird fun fact, but my maybe more normal one is actually got started with blogging as a personal finance blogger. Yeah, I joke that I’m super fun to have at parties. Cause I’m like, I love budgeting. Do you wanna talk about budgeting? I’ve been budgeting on Friday nights since I can’t remember when. It’s just like by default, I’m like, I don’t wanna talk to people. I’m done people. So I’m going to sit here with my laptop and check my account. It’s funny, because one of my good girlfriends will do the same thing and we’ll text each other and be like, are you checking your budget? 

Megan Porta: Tantalizing Friday nights with Allea. 

Allea Grummert: Yeah. Super fun. Super fun to have at parties. Then my boyfriend doesn’t budget and I’m just like, do we need to talk about this? How do you know how much money you have or where money’s going? Big nerd on that front. 

Megan Porta: Oh my goodness. Those are all so funny. So I have a question about your sense of smell. Yeah. Does that affect your sense of taste? 

Allea Grummert: So great question. I can taste, but the theory’s always been, if I could smell, I’d probably be able to taste more distinctly. So I really like pungent foods. So like your feta, your garlic, stuff like that. Yeah. So I can taste, but I don’t like spicy food. That’s a hard pass for me. 

Megan Porta: Blue cheese. Do you like blue cheese? 

Allea Grummert: I love blue cheese. All of the gorgonzola you could give me, I will take. And Caesar dressing, things like that, that are just, pungents probably not a nice word. But they’ve got a little extra bite to it. They’re stronger flavors. So I like food like that, but gosh, right now it’s cantaloupe season and I cannot get enough.

Megan Porta: Oh, yummy. 

Allea Grummert: So apparently I can taste because I am just drawn to it. I’m like an addict. I’m like, can I have the whole bowl? 

Megan Porta: There’s nothing better than a perfectly ripe cantaloupe. Just like that juicy flesh. It is so delicious.

Allea Grummert: Do you salt your summer cantaloupe? 

Megan Porta: I do. Oh my gosh. That’s funny. When I was a kid, my dad taught me to salt cantaloupe and also the honey do melon and watermelon. People think that is nuts, but it just adds a little something. 

Allea Grummert: You would fit in just fine here in Nebraska.

Megan Porta: Oh, good. 

Allea Grummert: That’s what we do here. 

Megan Porta: I’m not sure about smelling your armpits quite yet, Allea, but maybe we’ll get there by the end of the conversation. We might be okay. We could probably just keep having these conversations, but we should probably segue to segmenting email subscribers because I’m super curious to hear about this too.

So I was telling you before we recorded that this has actually been a conversation that I’ve had with multiple food bloggers lately. They’re just like, I don’t know where to start. How do I do this? How and why should I be segmenting? So we are going to learn from you today. Can you just start with explaining, what does it mean to segment if somebody does not know what that term means and why we should be doing this?

Allea Grummert: Yeah. So segmenting, if you think about it, your list is full of a bunch of different email addresses, a bunch of different individuals behind those email addresses and they all have different interests. So what you’re able to do by segmenting your list is to be able to determine what sections of those list want different types of content, basically.

So instead of just sending an email to your whole list, all of the time or automated emails that go to everyone, you’re actually figuring out who would benefit best from certain information. The simplest I can explain it. 

Megan Porta: Yeah, no, that is the perfect way to describe it. Does it matter which email service provider you’re on? Can most of them do this? I feel like that seems really complicated, but maybe it’s not. 

Allea Grummert: Yeah, most of them can. I put together a whole comparison spreadsheet as part of a blog post. If anybody wants it, it’s totally free, that compares them all. But the only one that I would say that doesn’t do it well would beMailChimp. Basically, if you have a form and you have a way to mark who came in through a form, that’s one way to segment. We can get into more details about that. But yeah, if you can also track links. So if anybody clicks on something in particular. So really good platforms for that would be Active Campaign, Convertkit, which is what I use, Mailer lite has it as well. So we can get into more details, but yes. Most platforms can do that. 

Megan Porta: Okay, because I know that food bloggers are all across the board, as far as what they use. I hear some of the ones that you just mentioned, Mailer lite, Convertkit, Flodesk. I know AWeber is an underutilized one. 

Allea Grummert: Yeah. I would say Flodesk does an okay job. It’s not as polished as maybe some of the others on the technical side, it’s really polished on the front side. It’s very pretty. But yeah, the reason why I usually steer away from MailChimp is because the way that it was initially built as a system was basically, each list that you create was its own independent list. So you know how you could, I don’t know if you’ve been in MailChimp, but you can toggle to a different list. So you could essentially have six different opt-ins, but you have six different lists and those lists don’t communicate to one another. They added tags later, they added in groups. It’s not something that’s really intuitive to use from the beginning. It’s an older system that just hasn’t shifted the way that Convert kit and Flodesk have been created out of this need to be able to segment, to be able to know who your individual subscribers are, to be able to send more tailored content to them. So MailChimp’s just not really built for that anymore. It’s more of like a system you’d have to finagle. I don’t know if it’s worth it. 

Megan Porta: That doesn’t sound ideal. Can you give us some examples of types of segments that we could possibly create? 

Allea Grummert: Yeah. So as far as why we wanna do this in the first place, before we even get there, it’s just, we wanna be able to serve your readers better. We wanna be able to share more relevant content and ultimately we wanna keep them happy and engaged and open your emails. So think about different ways that you can present the content that you have on your site to them, in a way that makes sense. So I specialize in welcome and nurture sequences. So this is when we’re really first introducing you to your reader. They haven’t scrolled through your whole website. They don’t know your most popular recipes or the different kind of topics, perhaps, that you share. The kind of content themes that you have. So that’s one way that we could introduce them to your content, is by sharing different content themes.

If people are really interested in say Instant Pot recipes, that’s the kind of recipes they get instead of air fryers perhaps. Another would be separating your new subscribers by skill level. So people who are new to being a home cook, that they get different content that maybe people who’ve been doing it for a while. One that is really relevant for food bloggers would be being able to parse out and know who your vegetarians are. So this is something that we did with Pinch of Yum when I worked with them, being able to say, I’m a vegetarian. They can click that and then they get a tag added in the email service platform. We are able to exclude that individual from getting recipes that are only about meat, or be able to send them a more specific email with vegetarian recipes. What they’re doing is they’re telling us their preferences and we are able to model and modify the content that they get as a result of that. That’s the kind of customer service that we like in the world, right? Don’t treat me like a number. I’m an individual who gives people an opportunity to tailor their content from you, to an extent that makes sense. You can’t bend over for everyone, but in a way that you could create a better experience for them while they’re experiencing your content.

Megan Porta: Okay. That makes perfect sense. Depending on what our niche is and what we provide for recipes, there could be many options. You mentioned vegetarian recipes or vegan or gluten free. You could go on and on. Beef, you could segment probably anyway.

Allea Grummert: . Yep. So what we did with Pinch of Yum, it’s really simple. They have two segments that they send their new broadcast to. So if it’s a meat recipe, it goes out to everyone excluding the vegetarians. So in a way you’re reducing the noise in someone’s inbox when they’ve already told you that they’re not interested. So as much as you wanna stay top of mind, you’d rather stay top of mind with content that’s relevant to them.

Megan Porta: Reduce inbox noise. We can all relate to that because I have so much noise in my inbox and everybody does. So we have to be aware of that and just be sensitive to the fact that not everybody wants every single recipe we send out. So that’s the idea here is to just streamline what people are getting.

Allea Grummert: So when you think about what these segments would be, consider what kind of content you would wanna make sure that every new subscriber who is interested in cookies got from you. Your top favorite cookie recipes, maybe the ones that get the most traffic or the ones that have the highest affiliate link conversion rates, the ones who are bringing in dollars that way. But that way, when you’re actually sending those emails it’s to the people who really want them the most. Another strategy to that too, which we can cover more in depth, I suppose, but you can exclude people who aren’t interested in those things. So if you have an automated, ongoing nurture sequence, and you’ve got emails in there that are specific to air fryer recipes, and people have told you, I don’t have an air fryer, I’m not interested. You can just have them skip getting those emails. 

Megan Porta: How easy is this to do? 

Allea Grummert: Way easier to do in Convertkit. So in Convertkit, in a sequence of emails you could have, I have 52 in my ongoing nurture sequence and I can go in and set up an individual filter for one email within there and say, exclude anyone who’s already purchased this product. So they’ll just skip that email and go to the next one when it’s their time to get a new email. 

Megan Porta: Okay. So super easy in Convertkit. I have not tried this, so I use Flodesk on one side of my business and mailer light on the other. I’ve never tried this. I’ve always had dreams and goals to do it. I think it’s intimidating because I just don’t know how difficult it is. So outside of Convertkit, Is it like a big work around?

Allea Grummert: Depends on how you can build out your map. Active campaign will let you basically skip an email. They’ve got this sweet little like action step just says, go from here to here and skip an email if they don’t have this tag, or if they have this tag. In Mailer light and Flodesk, both they’re a little bit more linear. So then when you build it out, basically what you’d have to do in the workflow is end the workflow based on if they have this tag. If they do have this tag, they just end the workflow. If they don’t have this tag, then they go into a new one, perhaps. So you’d just have to separate them into pieces of a workflow. FloDesk would probably flow and Mailer lite would probably be the same on that side.

But what’s also cool. I’ll tell you this. I don’t think you can do this in Flodesk yet, but there is something called conditional content. This is in basically everything but Flodesk. I think they’re working on it, but within the email itself, you can hide a certain content from a subscriber. So instead of them not getting the email at all, they can get the email, but exclude the content that’s not relevant to them, or you can replace it with different content. So it’s basically like hidden messages, if you will. Okay. So you can basically say if someone has this tag show this content. Or if they have this tag hide this content. So if you go into MailerLite and you go into your email editor builder, and you hover over the section, you’ll see a little eyeball, click on that. Then you can pick, I wanna show it to everyone except anybody who has the vegetarian tag. So that way you don’t have to move them out of workflows, but you can still send them the email, but include different content.

Megan Porta: Okay. I feel like this requires a different part of my brain than taking photos and writing a blog post.

Allea Grummert: That’s where perhaps it’s not something like, creating this whole ongoing nurture sequence that it’s filtering people out. That is pretty complicated. You might not need that. If after someone completes my welcome sequence, if they have this tag, they get these five emails. That’s simple. That is part of onboarding them and integrating them into your world in a really simple way. But you don’t have to do it for the lifetime of them being on your list either.

Megan Porta: Okay. What something you just said triggered something in me that made sense. When I tend to over complicate things, which I do often, I just have to go back to the basics and start simple. Do something really simple. Then once that makes sense, then you can make it more complicated. So maybe that’s what I need to do here. Maybe that would help me to just kinda wrap my brain around it. 

Allea Grummert: Yeah. If you just use the segmentation beyond that for things like your live broadcast or your brand new emails, then you send two emails; you send one to the ones with the vegetarian tag and one to the ones without. If that allows you just to say, I know I’m serving my audience better this way, great. If it overcomplicates it, take that and try and replicate it into an automation, then don’t worry about it. You don’t have to, but you know that you’re serving your audience well with what you sent out. 

Megan Porta: Yeah, I like that. That simplifies it for me. 

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Megan Porta: Okay. So what are ways to segment? Do we do this? You mentioned like in a welcome sequence, maybe. What other ways can we start to do this? 

Allea Grummert: Yeah. So one of the ways that I often do for my clients is have readers self segment themselves in a welcome sequence. This typically looks like clicking on a link. It’s just super easy. We tell them, Hey, I wanna learn more about what’s important to you. Will you click below to let me know. Then you can say and I’ll be sending you more content just for that information. The link might be through to your homepage. It could be through a category page on your site for a certain type of recipe, or maybe it’s things that are like, I want more hacks or I want more dessert recipes.

It could be really anything, but that should add a tag to their profile. You can do a couple things with this tag. You can use that to trigger a follow up sequence. You can also just keep that information stored in your subscriber information. So you know, oh, like 50% of my audience really wants more more recipes around cantaloupe, who knows why I’m thinking about cantaloupe. It’s summer. But then you can use that more just for data and for informing yourself. But ideally what would happen is after the welcome sequence, they would get dropped into another sequence that they would get on a weekly basis with content related to what they clicked on. Perhaps it’s a skill level. So this is what we did with Pinch of Yum, is that when you join their list, we asked them, we asked the reader, are you brand new to cooking? If so, you are super welcome here. We’re gonna make this fun. Click here, and we’ll get you some early beginner training, if you will. They get these five emails that are like, we’re not talking about blenders, we’re not talking about food processors. We are talking about knives, the cutting boards. The stuff you need to have in your pantry. How to cut up garlic, and it’s only over five emails, but it’s a way to really bridge that gap for people who are intimidated. Who don’t know what Tikka is or tofu, or what do I do with this? So we’re teaching them so they can benefit more from the rest of the content from the Pinch of Yum team.

Megan Porta: Yeah. Oh, that’s smart. Then once they graduate from there, they could potentially move on to a new skill level. 

Allea Grummert: Yeah. Yeah. So what we actually did with them is we have a beginner segment or sequence of emails, and then we also have one that’s just general. So we ask them, or have you been around the block? If you just wanna hop into some of our best recipes and tools that we use, just click here. So some people can go directly there. If they click on the beginner one, they go through those five emails and then we send them through the next one. So yeah, we have people click through the welcome sequence for them. I have another client that, based on how people opt in. So this is in the personal finance space. So there’s investing, there’s things about student loans. They get a tag when they get those, when they opt in, but they first go through the welcome sequence. By the end of the welcome sequence, based on whatever tags they got, those are the sequences that they go into. So we hold that information until they’re fully welcomed and introduced to the whole brand and everything that they have to offer. Then they get their more specific content. 

Megan Porta: This could go on forever. Like you could create so many different options. I feel like this could be this huge weave of just this big map of sequences.

Allea Grummert: What we did with Pinch of Yum. So I mentioned like they get the five emails for the beginners and then they get another five emails for the more general nurture sequence, right after that. So it’s 10 weeks. Whereas this finance blog I’m working with, we just set these different topics throughout a different day of the week. So they’ll get their investing emails on Mondays for 10 weeks and they’ll get their student loan emails on Wednesdays for 10 weeks. So it’s a lot of information, but they’ve also opted in to get it. Then this kind of goes back to excluding. If you can offer people an option to say, I’m no longer interested in student loan information and they click it and it can remove them from that workflow, that’s serving them well, they’ve gotten what they needed, but they still want the rest of your information, the rest of the time. That’s okay. You’re just giving them an option to opt out of part of your content.

Megan Porta: Are there other ways to segment other than what you’ve talked about? 

Allea Grummert: yeah. So you can also just cross promote your different opt-ins. So say you’re like, Ugh, Allie, that would’ve been nice to know what I created all these things forever ago. But what you can do is now that you have these opt-ins that are maybe specific towards pasta dishes or something, and you wanna know who else is interested in pasta, share it with your existing list. You’re gathering the data on the new subscribers, but share it with your current list and see who clicks through. If you don’t have an option for link triggers, like in ConvertKit or Active Campaign, you just link to the actual form. Then they just go put their name and email in again. Sure that’s not ideal, but it’s like, Hey, do you want this 10 day course on pasta? They’re like, yeah. They put their information in. Then you can gather that and send them more related content. So you can still be segmenting your list, even if it’s an active list you’ve got going on now. Then I mentioned the other option instead of opting in, is allowing them the option to opt out. So I host a monthly round table to talk about email marketing, becauseI’m like a super nerd. Come talk to me about it. But the email that sends out the recap, the recording of the session at the end is like no longer interested in round table emails? Just click here. So then they’re not gonna get those anymore unless they opt in for another round table in the future. So if you think about that as a reader, as a subscriber, you’re like, thank you for the options. Because I’ve done that where I’m like, I just wanna change my email address. I don’t wanna unsubscribe from you. Just gimme the option. 

Megan Porta: Yeah. It’s scary to think about allowing people the opportunity to opt out, but actually that’s serving them and it’s serving you because they are going to maybe stay on your list for other reasons and not feel like, oh, I need to get everything. They can just get what they want. 

Allea Grummert: So my ongoing nurture sequence that I mentioned is like 50 some weeks long, goes out on Tuesdays. My brand new emails go out. Thursdays and most of them get repurposed and get added to that longer sequence. But I have a different template that I use for each one. So the Tuesday emails, because they’re automated, I just have a link at the bottom that says not interested in the best of Duett emails? Click here just to get the new stuff. So it just removes them from that sequence. They’re only getting my Thursday emails.

Megan Porta: How much time do you invest in this?

Allea Grummert: My own? None really. 

Megan Porta: Oh, really? 

Allea Grummert: I write an email, I convert it into a blog post, do it backwards, but I’m also not like a career blogger. I just want that information also on my site. I say career blogger, cuz I know that’s who we’re talking to here. This is an art, whereas I just write the email, turn it into a blog post and then I make it evergreen. I’m saying with quotation marks. Putting it into a nurture sequence. So as long as it’s something that’s not gonna be super outdated, it can go in there. This is a big mindset shift for a lot of people when it comes to email. But just because you created something two years ago, doesn’t mean it’s not helpful to people now. You’re like, that recipe’s old, or I hear this all the time from personal finance. That blog post is old. I’m like, is it still about budgeting? Does it still help solve problems? We need to get that in front of people. That’s more just like a mindset thing that we have. No, my initial emails that I sent out to my list in 2019, not my best work, but is it encouraging people to get out and send emails? Yeah, it’s doing the job. So sure, I would love to go and refine that and make it even better. But I also know that it’s still serving a purpose and I’m glad that content is at least being shared. 

Megan Porta: I love that you brought that up because we do get into that mindset trap of thinking that just because we’ve published it at some point that nobody wants to see it again. That is totally not true. People forget from quarter to quarter, even. I forget my own content. So of course, they’re going to forget.

Allea Grummert: Well, and not everyone has read all of your blog posts or opened all of your emails, which is like a bit of a pride hit. You’re like, they haven’t? Like your mom maybe has, but not everyone else. What I love about planning this out with my clients is we get to come at it, we do audience research. So we know what your audience is looking for when they come to your site, we know what they love about you. We know what their favorite blog posts are. We have that, but then you, as the creator of your site, get to look at it and say, what do I want everyone to get? What would be so helpful for anybody who’s learning about baking cookies? What is it they need? You really get to really strip that back and say, is it certain ingredients? Are there certain tools? Are there fail proof recipes that would build them confidence in making more of our recipes? What are those things? So you kinda get to craft that kind of mindset along with what content you already have on your site that is going to blow their mind. 

Megan Porta: Yes. That is the ultimate goal, right? 

Allea Grummert: Whatever we can do to give them that step up, I think, yeah. You’ve got seasoned people who know how to cook or grill or bake or whatnot, but you also have a lot of people who are new. How do we just give them that step up into your world, into your universe and you get to make them feel comfortable? 

Megan Porta: Well said. How does this help us to get higher conversions and increase our revenue? Because those are two things that a lot of us want. 

Allea Grummert: Yeah. So in general, personalized content performs better than generalized content, right? If someone says your name and is looking at you in the eye, you’re like, I hear you. Much better than just speaking to a whole crowd, perhaps. So what that looks like is when you’re sending subscribers content that’s relevant to them. You’re just more likely going to see higher open and click through rates. Those are the conversions that we want. So this is a link to your blog. This is linked through to products that you’re selling or affiliate programs that you’re part of. So you don’t wanna be pitching Butcher Box to your vegetarians on your list, right? So it’s going to perform better if you’re only sending it to people that really want it.

So an example of that. So I’d mentioned when I worked with Pinch of Yum on their stuff, so they’re new to the cooking segment, their beginner cooks, that segment is one that they opted into. So that’s not the one that they go into by default, if no one clicks. This is yes, Lindsay and team. I want this, these emails. It has almost a 62% open rate, on average, between all those emails. Over 19% click. 

Megan Porta: Wow. That’s awesome. 

Allea Grummert: Yeah, insane. Whereas in the general nurture sequence, some people choose to go in there, but then it’s also our default for people don’t choose. Then the people from the beginner segment funnel into there as well. We’ve already created this content and it’s helpful for most people. We just have to decide when they get it. But the open rate for that is almost 45% and then click through rate is almost 7%. So still really good. But if you look at the difference between 62% open and 44, where almost 20% click through rate and seven, you can just see that the personalized content was really active and in gear for the people who are excited to be there.

Megan Porta: So definitely worthwhile to at least segment a little bit, just to experiment and see how it pans out. That’s a huge difference. 

Allea Grummert: Yeah. Yeah. And those are phenomenal open and click through rates regardless. Yeah. But yeah, so that was just something to see that personalized content people are just gonna respond to it differently. I don’t know the name of the psychological thing that happens. But when you ask people for their input and then they receive that information, they’re more likely to respond because they’ve felt heard. It’s an actual science, I’d have to look up the actual name of it but a phenomenon. So if you’re like, yeah, if you’re just giving people the option to tell you what they want more of, they’re already going to engage with you better. 

Megan Porta: That is interesting. I always appreciate when entrepreneurs are like, I don’t know, creating a book, writing a book and they have a book cover that they want you to give input on. When I give input, I feel like I’m part of their project. So something along those lines is what you’re saying. Invested, you’re more invested once you’ve given your feedback or your input. 

Allea Grummert: Yep. There’s an actual phenomenon that happens where you feel more connected to that. So I can definitely look up that information and get that back to you. Oh, I found it. 

Megan Porta: Oh, wow. Look at you. 

Allea Grummert: I didn’t wanna type, so I found my phone. I learned it from a conference called the Barnum four effect. It was developed in the forties and it helps your prospect believe something about themselves that then leads them to be more engaged with your offer. 

Megan Porta: Wow, that’s so cool. I always love it when there’s something psychological that you can tie into a strategy. 

Allea Grummert: I did not learn that myself. That was from another copywriter.

Megan Porta: Oh, that’s awesome. Okay. What if we missed, Allea? Anything that we should cover?

Allea Grummert: Let’s see. Really, I think as far as how to actually get started with this, I would say number one, determine if there are any significantly different approaches to your content that would benefit your readers. So segmenting might not be for everyone. If you’re like, all I do is blog about baking and if they’re not interested in baking, they can go, then that’s okay. Just send all of your baking content to everyone. But if you really wanna get specific or if you wanna create those different pods of learning, pods being four or five emails around a specific topic and you wanna make sure people get that right away, then consider that. As far as content themes. Is it a skill level when coming to your site or learning how to do something? Yeah. Determination is that significant enough to warrant this kind of approach. But then also think if you have products or if you have a cookbook or if you have eBooks related to a certain content, think of that as your end point. So if you have salads, if you have a salad ebook, and you’ve got people saying, yes, I want more salads. Give them free salad. Oh, I also have this ebook with 15 salads that aren’t even on the website. It’s $5, right? That’s gonna perform better because you’re speaking directly to the people who’ve already told you that they’re interested. So you kinda have to work backwards. Where’s the end goal and what will this do for your existing content or products? Or just for the experience of your reader on your site. You get to pick what is most prevalent and important to you? 

Megan Porta: I have a blogger friend, Monica from The Hidden Veggies and she does this so well, what you just said. So she has like the end result in mind and which are for her eBooks about vegan cheese, which is like a miracle in my opinion. Then yeah, she works backwards and then builds up this series with the end goal of selling that ebook. She is so successful. By the time this episode is published her episode will have been published. She and I recorded one, I think it, oh, it goes up in a couple weeks. So definitely worth listening to, to kinda round out our conversation too, Allea. So you could tie that in. It’s just so beneficial to think of that end result if you do have a product or maybe you don’t have a product, but you wanna create a product to sell and then build segments around that to support it. 

Allea Grummert: Absolutely. Yeah. Then when you think about it, now you have this little sequence of emails and you’re pitching a paid product. Even if it’s like a small cost, now if you go back to the top of the funnel, again, you can create more opt-ins that are related to salads. Maybe it’s salad dressings, maybe it’s salad toppings, and you get them on your list. You’ve already tagged them for salads. So when they’re done with your welcome sequence or whatnot, they go into the salad sequence and then they get these salad recipes in an ebook. 

Megan Porta: Oh my gosh. So much opportunity. 

Allea Grummert: It just cycles back around. You’re like, now that I’ve built it, I can drive more traffic.

Megan Porta: Yeah, my wheels are turning. It’s super fun to think of that. Especially if you have an end goal in mind, that is dollar signs. You want to ultimately sell your products and make money. So I think that’s good motivation for people to build something like this, that’s really effective.

Allea Grummert: Yeah. So I think that’s everything. We could go on for longer.

Megan Porta: This was so great. I feel like this rounds out all of my other email related conversations so nicely. So thank you so much for being here, Allea. 

Allea Grummert: Absolutely. Thank you for having me. 

Megan Porta: Yes. It’s good to connect with you. Do you have either a favorite quote or words of inspiration to leave us with?

Allea Grummert: Yes. Actually, I remember hearing this quote at my first job out of college and it’s from Julia Child. It says, “find something you’re passionate about and keep tremendously interested in it.” And I think, no, I know that gave me permission. It’s girl, if you like budgeting, go find your budgeting people, or whatever it is. I joke. I think it’s true. I don’t think being nerdy is a bad thing. Everybody’s a nerd about something. It just means that you’re deeply passionate about it. Go find your other people who are nerdy about it. I don’t think I am. I know way too much about Taylor Swift. Let me tell you. But I can find the other people who also know way too much about all of her albums and past boyfriends, whatever. I would win Taylor Swift trivia. Don’t feel bad for being excited or passionate about something. No matter what it is, you’ll find your people.

Megan Porta: Just be, you let you shine. 

Allea Grummert: Be tremendously interested in it. 

Megan Porta: Oh, I love that. And I love that Julia is the person who said it because it’s food related. We’ll put together show notes that we will put a bunch of awesome stuff in here. Everything we’ve talked about today from Allea. So you can find those at eatblogtalk.com/duett and duet is spelled with two Ts. Tell everyone where they can find you online, social media and everywhere else. 

Allea Grummert: Yeah. So you can find me on Instagram at allea grummert. Ugh. The whole thing is hard to spell. So you’ll find the show notes. Otherwise, if you find me at duett.co. I have tons of free resources. I have that free monthly round table, every monthly cover a different topic of email and then answer any pressing questions that people have. Then just for you guys, I’ve also added a discount code to my segmentation PDF resource. So it’s made up of a ton of different videos on how to actually implement segmentation, no matter what platform you’re in. And so you can find that link in the show notes too. 

Megan Porta: Thank you for that. That’s so great. Yes, we will definitely put those there. Thank you so much, Allea. I have loved our conversation today and thank you for listening today, food bloggers. I will see you in the next episode.

Outro: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Eat Blog Talk. Please share this episode with a friend who would benefit from tuning in. I will see you next time.